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this will be a lengthy introduction as

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there are several announcements that

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I've been holding on to and I can

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finally publicize them as usual you can

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click on the timestamp over here or in

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the description to skip this longish

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preface firstly you should know about

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today's guest and that is Professor of

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Harvard Avi Loeb now obvious an

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astrophysicist and a cosmologist with

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such a multitude of accolades that I

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could barely I can't memorize them so

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I'm simply going to read them so for one

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he's the longest serving chair of

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Harvard's Department of astronomy he's

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the founding director of Harvard's black

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hole initiative he's the director of The

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Institute for Theory and computation

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he's a fellow at the American Academy of

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Arts and Science and the American

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physical society and the international

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academy for astronautics he's the

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science theory director for the

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Breakthrough initiatives of the

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Breakthrough prize foundation and again

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he's won so many awards that I'll just

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list them on screen in the past year or

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so AVI has headed What's called the

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Galileo project which is dedicated to

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the systematic scientific search for

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evidence of extraterrestrial technology

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logical artifacts we're also announcing

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here that the Galileo project will have

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its first results in the summer of 2023.

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today we talk about Consciousness God

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uaps and the problem with current

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theoretical physics you should know that

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I've spoken to Avi lobe one year ago on

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this channel asking him about wormholes

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and the physics that Bob Lazar suggests

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Propel the UFO crafts link to that

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podcast is in the description for those

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of you who are unfamiliar my name is

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Kurt J mungle I'm a torontonian

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filmmaker with a background in

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mathematical physics dedicated to the

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explication of the variegated terrain of

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theories of everything mainly from a

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theoretical physics perspective but as

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well as analyzing and exploring what the

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heck is consciousness and what is its

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role related to fundamental laws if

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fundamental laws even exist in the sense

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that there's a bottom to it perhaps

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reductionism isn't the correct Paradigm

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but regardless you now have a flavor of

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what this podcast is about now on to

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some announcements the URL theories of

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everything.org is active the reasons for

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which I'll get to shortly one of the

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advantages is that I'm going going to be

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announcing what are the upcoming guests

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to members there either first or at

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least simultaneously as I don't like to

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provide many exclusives so for example

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Salvatore Pious is coming on the

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theories of everything podcast in the

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middle of October he will be joined with

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theoretical physicist Stefan Alexander

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now both Stefan and Salvatore Pius have

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been on the podcast before Stefan

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specializes he's one of the few that's

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an expert in both Loop quantum gravity

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and string theory in the previous

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podcast with Stefan we talk about String

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Theory particularly a new Theory of

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Everything called the autodidactic

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universe which is a universe that learns

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its own laws that will be in the

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description as for Salvatore Pius he has

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only given one interview and that's

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luckily been on theories of everything

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that will be in the description as well

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and it's about quantum gravity for those

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of you who don't know Salvatore Pious is

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the man who's behind the UFO patents

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also coming up is Ian mcgilchrist and

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John vervaki being joined as a

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theologusian again John has been on the

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theories of everything podcast before

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solo and that will be in the description

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as well as Ian mcgilchrist in fact the

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one with Ian is one of the highest

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quality podcasts on toe okay now let's

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talk about the website so

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theoriesofeverything.org is a place

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where you can go to support toe because

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many people choose to not support the

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platform of patreon because of at least

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reportedly there's some unscrupulous

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business practices or at least

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questionable what their future is so

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that's one reason and secondly patreon

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takes a huge cut many people don't know

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this but their credit card transaction

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fees Plus patreon on top of that takes a

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percentage theoriesofeverything.org is a

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vehicle that I have control over so if

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you like you can donate there directly

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as I imagine the reason you're

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supporting toe is to support toe not to

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support Kurt plus patreon there are also

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several benefits to being a member on

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the website number one you'll get an ads

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free audio version keep in mind that all

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ads whether they're in the introduction

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or in the middle those are called

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mid-rolls they're skippable by clicking

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on the next time stamp I ensure this

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because I'm the one that time stamps

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each episode regardless if you'd like an

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ad free audio version that comes to you

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as a benefit for being a member on the

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theories of everything.org website

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Additionally the way that it works on

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toe's end is that I render out an

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episode and then I wait approximately

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two days or so between once it's

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uploaded to YouTube and once it finally

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premieres and one of the reasons for

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that is to build an audience Etc however

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what that means is that I actually have

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the episode completed 12 to 48 hours

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prior to you seeing it so what will

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happen is if you're a member you'll get

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an uploaded ads free version 12 to 48

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hours before anyone else again nothing

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changes for those of you who are on

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YouTube and want to stay there and don't

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want to be a toll member Etc that's fine

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it's the same way that it's been

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nothing's going to change there another

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benefit of being a member on the website

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rather than on patreon or any other

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platform is that there will be discounts

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or even free tickets offered whenever we

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have Live Events additionally okay this

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is another benefit you'll get a

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personalized number to text me if you

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like that yes this goes to my phone it's

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not someone else answering for instance

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instance you can say Kurt you said that

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so-and-so episode was coming out I was

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wondering what the progress is on that

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Kurt have you seen the finale of Better

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Call Saul Kurt when are you going to be

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speaking to Stephen Greer by the way

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Stephen Greer will be coming on the toe

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podcast mid-october the specific date is

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not here yet and there's a high

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likelihood that it will be live and

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that's whether you remember or not it's

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going to be live on YouTube public

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another benefit to being a member on the

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website is that if you have Ama

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questions to ask for myself my amas that

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is the questions and answers with Kurt

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and then you can submit them there and

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I'll be doing amas for the members keep

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in mind that if you have a question for

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example Greer or Salvador Pious or any

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other guest there is no exclusive to

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being a member or to being on patreon or

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to being on Twitter a quality question

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is a quality question wherever it comes

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from I don't prioritize questions based

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on if someone donates let's say 200 in a

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super chat or if they donate zero

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they're just simply asking a question

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like anyone else there are no plans for

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the live streams to be member specific

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though if I ever do do an in-person

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meeting like for example I'm thinking of

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filming with an audience and Carl

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friston in person in London then that

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may be streamed to website members

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another benefit is that certain merch

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will be exclusive to being a member so

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for example one that I'm working on now

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is a notebook where at the top of each

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page is a quotation from a different

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mathematician or a physicist or even a

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spiritual leader and that will hopefully

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serve as inspiration for whatever you're

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writing on the page okay so there are

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manifold benefits to being a

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theoriesofeverything.org remember don't

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go to theoriesofeverything.com some

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cyber squatters has that domain so dot

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org toe is supported by you and the

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sponsors thank you thank you so much I

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wouldn't be able to do toe without you

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whether it's full-time or part-time I

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wouldn't be able to do this without you

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there are so many many plans for the

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future again I wouldn't be able to do it

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without you so thank you thank you

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whether you're just watching or whether

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you donate that's it okay now on to the

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sponsors if you're familiar with toe

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you're familiar with Brilliance but for

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those who don't know brilliant is a

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place where you go to learn math science

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and engineering through these bite-sized

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Interactive Learning experiences for

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example and I keep saying this I would

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like to do a podcast on information

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Theory particularly Chiara marletto

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which is David Deutsch's student has a

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theory of everything that she puts

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forward called Constructor Theory which

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is heavily contingent on information

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Theory so I took their course on random

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variable distributions and knowledge and

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uncertainty in order to learn a bit more

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about entropy now there's this formula

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for entropy essentially hammered into

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you as an undergraduate which seems to

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have fallen from the sky however when

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you take Brilliance course it was the

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first time that I could see that it's an

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extremely clear and intuitive formula

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that is to say that it would be

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unnatural to Define it in any other

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manner visit brilliant.org toe that is

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t-o-e to get 20 off the annual

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subscription and I recommend that you

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don't stop before four lessons I think

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you'll be greatly surprised that the

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ease at which you can now comprehend

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subjects you previously had a difficult

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time growing at some point I'll also go

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through the courses and give a

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recommendation in order okay wow thank

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you for sitting through that prodigious

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introduction now on to the episode with

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Avi Loeb enjoy thank you for coming out

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Avi

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thanks for having me it's a great

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pleasure

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let's just lay some groundwork for the

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audience who's unacquainted with you

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what is the Galileo project and what has

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it been up to in the past year

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the Galileo project is called after

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Galileo Galilei that a physicist that

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founded modern science four centuries

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ago he was put in house arrest because

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he suggested that maybe the Earth is not

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at the center of the universe and at the

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time people thought that it is and the

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philosophers

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uh said that that makes no sense we

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don't even want to look through our

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telescopes and The Innovation that he

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brought forward is that we should look

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for evidence before we assert something

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rather than just make a statement

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because it flutters our ego and today he

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would have been canceled on social media

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because his view was not popular at the

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time but if you were to ask those

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philosophers to design a space mission

274
00:09:12,290 --> 00:09:10,380
that would reach Mars they would never

275
00:09:14,449 --> 00:09:12,300
get to their destination because they

276
00:09:17,150 --> 00:09:14,459
thought that Mars moves around the Earth

277
00:09:19,310 --> 00:09:17,160
so in the Galileo project four centuries

278
00:09:21,769 --> 00:09:19,320
later we say we learned something

279
00:09:24,410 --> 00:09:21,779
important from Galileo which is let's

280
00:09:26,930 --> 00:09:24,420
look for evidence to guide us rather

281
00:09:28,009 --> 00:09:26,940
than Prejudice and we apply it in the

282
00:09:32,030 --> 00:09:28,019
context of

283
00:09:34,030 --> 00:09:32,040
is there a smart intelligent neighbor in

284
00:09:36,410 --> 00:09:34,040
our Cosmic

285
00:09:38,630 --> 00:09:36,420
neighborhood you know in our uh our

286
00:09:41,210 --> 00:09:38,640
Cosmic backyard and

287
00:09:44,090 --> 00:09:41,220
um and in the past people had very

288
00:09:46,009 --> 00:09:44,100
strong opinions on this and people also

289
00:09:47,690 --> 00:09:46,019
after we developed radio communication

290
00:09:51,070 --> 00:09:47,700
people said oh let's look for radio

291
00:09:54,590 --> 00:09:51,080
signals but you know it's quite

292
00:09:56,870 --> 00:09:54,600
narrow-minded to think that just because

293
00:10:00,530 --> 00:09:56,880
we just develop radio communication that

294
00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:00,540
will be the main uh Way by which we will

295
00:10:04,670 --> 00:10:02,880
detect extraterrestrial civilization

296
00:10:07,250 --> 00:10:04,680
because we ourselves are moving away

297
00:10:10,910 --> 00:10:07,260
from radio right now we have the cable

298
00:10:11,949 --> 00:10:10,920
and fiber optics and in space we are

299
00:10:14,990 --> 00:10:11,959
developing

300
00:10:18,350 --> 00:10:15,000
laser communication so why would you

301
00:10:20,710 --> 00:10:18,360
assume that such a communication method

302
00:10:24,170 --> 00:10:20,720
applies for more than a century or two

303
00:10:26,030 --> 00:10:24,180
for any advanced civilization and so um

304
00:10:28,070 --> 00:10:26,040
it's just like trying to say let's have

305
00:10:30,410 --> 00:10:28,080
a phone conversation with Wharf gangama

306
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:30,420
de OS Mozart and you will never find

307
00:10:35,389 --> 00:10:32,399
Mozart if you try to dial all the phone

308
00:10:38,630 --> 00:10:35,399
numbers available level because he died

309
00:10:41,630 --> 00:10:38,640
and so to have a radio signal

310
00:10:43,550 --> 00:10:41,640
approaching us now would imply that

311
00:10:45,710 --> 00:10:43,560
there is someone transmitting just at

312
00:10:47,630 --> 00:10:45,720
the time that we're listening which is

313
00:10:49,430 --> 00:10:47,640
probably not the case because most stars

314
00:10:51,650 --> 00:10:49,440
from billions of years before the Sun so

315
00:10:53,090 --> 00:10:51,660
they're radius any radio signal from

316
00:10:55,850 --> 00:10:53,100
there is billions of light years away

317
00:10:58,490 --> 00:10:55,860
anyway so the approach we are taking

318
00:11:01,310 --> 00:10:58,500
within the gorilla project is to search

319
00:11:04,730 --> 00:11:01,320
for relics because we sent out five

320
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:04,740
spacecraft over half a century which is

321
00:11:08,509 --> 00:11:06,720
pretty much one part in 100 million of

322
00:11:10,670 --> 00:11:08,519
the age of the Earth just over that

323
00:11:13,370 --> 00:11:10,680
short period of time we sent five

324
00:11:16,069 --> 00:11:13,380
spacecraft that will leave the solar

325
00:11:17,930 --> 00:11:16,079
system and uh it's quite likely that if

326
00:11:21,110 --> 00:11:17,940
there was another Advanced civilization

327
00:11:23,329 --> 00:11:21,120
a billion years ago they sent some

328
00:11:26,090 --> 00:11:23,339
equipment out of their planetary system

329
00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:26,100
and if they were more advanced than we

330
00:11:31,130 --> 00:11:28,079
are then you know they could have sent

331
00:11:32,870 --> 00:11:31,140
probes that after a billion years fill

332
00:11:35,750 --> 00:11:32,880
up the entire Milky Way galaxy because

333
00:11:38,090 --> 00:11:35,760
if they are self-replicating if they

334
00:11:40,130 --> 00:11:38,100
have 3D printers you know if they have

335
00:11:42,530 --> 00:11:40,140
artificial intelligence so that they can

336
00:11:45,470 --> 00:11:42,540
continue to be functioning for a long

337
00:11:47,569 --> 00:11:45,480
period of time then they might as well

338
00:11:50,509 --> 00:11:47,579
fill up all the habitable regions around

339
00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:50,519
stars in the Milky Way so we say you

340
00:11:55,370 --> 00:11:52,800
know if you launch systems with chemical

341
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:55,380
Rockets they will remain gravitational

342
00:12:00,170 --> 00:11:57,360
bound to the military way they cannot

343
00:12:01,850 --> 00:12:00,180
Escape like light signals radio signals

344
00:12:04,670 --> 00:12:01,860
leave the Milky Way and they're gone

345
00:12:06,829 --> 00:12:04,680
forever however if you send equipment

346
00:12:09,110 --> 00:12:06,839
that tens of kilometers per second the

347
00:12:11,329 --> 00:12:09,120
way we sent our spacecraft they will

348
00:12:13,550 --> 00:12:11,339
still be bound gravitationally they

349
00:12:15,230 --> 00:12:13,560
cannot escape from the Milky Way galaxy

350
00:12:18,170 --> 00:12:15,240
so you think of the Milky Way galaxy as

351
00:12:20,329 --> 00:12:18,180
a basket collecting all the pieces of

352
00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:20,339
equipment all the devices that were ever

353
00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:23,040
created since the Big Bang

354
00:12:27,530 --> 00:12:25,680
within this volume

355
00:12:29,329 --> 00:12:27,540
um and and were launched by chemical

356
00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:29,339
Rockets or things that are not faster

357
00:12:34,430 --> 00:12:32,040
than uh hundreds of kilometers per

358
00:12:36,650 --> 00:12:34,440
second all of these things are now

359
00:12:38,990 --> 00:12:36,660
sitting inside the Milky Way galaxy and

360
00:12:41,630 --> 00:12:39,000
some of them may be functional some of

361
00:12:43,730 --> 00:12:41,640
them may be space trash but we should

362
00:12:46,430 --> 00:12:43,740
look around us to look for those objects

363
00:12:47,690 --> 00:12:46,440
okay so that's I call that Interstellar

364
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:47,700
archeology

365
00:12:56,269 --> 00:12:52,560
relics of things that existed in the

366
00:12:58,069 --> 00:12:56,279
past the whoever produced them need not

367
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:58,079
be alive anymore that those

368
00:13:02,090 --> 00:13:00,480
civilizations may be dead by now maybe

369
00:13:04,970 --> 00:13:02,100
they didn't take care of their climate

370
00:13:06,710 --> 00:13:04,980
maybe they went into a nuclear war you

371
00:13:09,290 --> 00:13:06,720
know we don't care as long as they

372
00:13:11,329 --> 00:13:09,300
launch things out of their planet that

373
00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:11,339
could reach us by now we just search

374
00:13:15,949 --> 00:13:13,920
around for anything they left and then

375
00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:15,959
this intestinal archeology is something

376
00:13:22,670 --> 00:13:19,500
that was never pursued despite 70 years

377
00:13:24,889 --> 00:13:22,680
of City activity so if you ask how does

378
00:13:28,009 --> 00:13:24,899
the seti community regard this endeavor

379
00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:28,019
they dismiss it they ridiculate they say

380
00:13:33,949 --> 00:13:30,720
no no no way this is ridiculous there is

381
00:13:36,250 --> 00:13:33,959
nothing around us and I you know I say

382
00:13:39,769 --> 00:13:36,260
well let's look because

383
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:39,779
only over the past five years we

384
00:13:44,269 --> 00:13:41,760
discovered the first

385
00:13:46,490 --> 00:13:44,279
three Interstellar objects objects that

386
00:13:49,069 --> 00:13:46,500
came from outside the solar system in

387
00:13:51,290 --> 00:13:49,079
astronomy astronomers the first one was

388
00:13:52,670 --> 00:13:51,300
actually from 2014 and we will talk more

389
00:13:55,329 --> 00:13:52,680
about it

390
00:13:59,569 --> 00:13:55,339
cneos yes

391
00:14:01,069 --> 00:13:59,579
January 8th 2014 a meteor that collided

392
00:14:04,129 --> 00:14:01,079
with the Earth you can think of the

393
00:14:06,170 --> 00:14:04,139
Earth as a fishing net that collects

394
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:06,180
objects along its path around the sun

395
00:14:10,690 --> 00:14:08,880
and the first one identified by

396
00:14:14,329 --> 00:14:10,700
government sensors

397
00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:14,339
with a very high speed that indicated

398
00:14:19,069 --> 00:14:16,260
that it came from outside the sources it

399
00:14:22,370 --> 00:14:19,079
was was found in 2014 and nobody paid

400
00:14:24,949 --> 00:14:22,380
attention to it until in 2019 I was

401
00:14:28,370 --> 00:14:24,959
interviewed on the radio and about

402
00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:28,380
meteors and I I looked online and I

403
00:14:32,930 --> 00:14:30,600
found this catalog of meteors the

404
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:32,940
government compiled based on Missile

405
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:36,000
Warning Systems data and I asked my

406
00:14:40,430 --> 00:14:38,639
student Amir siraj to check if the

407
00:14:42,590 --> 00:14:40,440
fastest moving meteors could have been

408
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,600
Unbound to the sun okay any of them

409
00:14:47,509 --> 00:14:44,399
could have come from outside the solar

410
00:14:50,569 --> 00:14:47,519
system and we found that we found that

411
00:14:53,449 --> 00:14:50,579
one okay and we wrote a paper and then

412
00:14:55,970 --> 00:14:53,459
the reviewers of the paper said we don't

413
00:14:57,769 --> 00:14:55,980
believe the US government you know we we

414
00:15:01,370 --> 00:14:57,779
don't believe the uncertainties so then

415
00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:01,380
it took it took a few years uh and uh I

416
00:15:04,730 --> 00:15:03,120
got the people

417
00:15:06,410 --> 00:15:04,740
um you know behind the National Security

418
00:15:09,230 --> 00:15:06,420
Fence especially from the White House

419
00:15:10,970 --> 00:15:09,240
from Department of Defense they issued a

420
00:15:14,150 --> 00:15:10,980
letter from the U.S space command to

421
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:14,160
NASA confirming that indeed this object

422
00:15:19,569 --> 00:15:17,040
that we identified with my student came

423
00:15:23,090 --> 00:15:19,579
from outside the solar system at the

424
00:15:25,730 --> 00:15:23,100
99.99 confidence okay so that's that's

425
00:15:27,889 --> 00:15:25,740
the first Interstellar object it's the

426
00:15:29,449 --> 00:15:27,899
first Interstellar meteor the size of a

427
00:15:33,290 --> 00:15:29,459
basketball

428
00:15:36,590 --> 00:15:33,300
um that was identified uh by humans okay

429
00:15:39,530 --> 00:15:36,600
and the second one was identified in

430
00:15:42,410 --> 00:15:39,540
2017 that was that my book

431
00:15:45,769 --> 00:15:42,420
extraterrestrial talks about and the

432
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:45,779
third one was a comet just just like any

433
00:15:51,050 --> 00:15:48,240
other Comet it came from outside the

434
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:51,060
solar system but the first two are

435
00:15:57,370 --> 00:15:54,959
complete outliers uh the meteor has

436
00:15:59,810 --> 00:15:57,380
material strength tougher than iron

437
00:16:03,230 --> 00:15:59,820
tougher than all other meteors in the

438
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,240
catalog 273 of them by a factor of two

439
00:16:08,090 --> 00:16:05,040
or more how do you measure toughness by

440
00:16:09,769 --> 00:16:08,100
the way oh it's very easy because when

441
00:16:12,110 --> 00:16:09,779
it collides with the Earth it basically

442
00:16:14,449 --> 00:16:12,120
goes through the atmosphere and the

443
00:16:16,970 --> 00:16:14,459
atmosphere gets denser as you go to

444
00:16:18,889 --> 00:16:16,980
lower and lower in the atmosphere so the

445
00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:18,899
density of the atmosphere gets diluted

446
00:16:25,069 --> 00:16:22,320
As you move up and so you can we can

447
00:16:29,269 --> 00:16:25,079
tell where the explosion took place it

448
00:16:31,790 --> 00:16:29,279
was 18.7 kilometers above the ocean's

449
00:16:34,009 --> 00:16:31,800
surface a hundred miles off the the

450
00:16:36,889 --> 00:16:34,019
coast of Papua New Guinea that's where

451
00:16:40,430 --> 00:16:36,899
the government identified the fireball

452
00:16:42,769 --> 00:16:40,440
that was created from the object burning

453
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,779
up in the atmosphere and it released a

454
00:16:48,050 --> 00:16:44,720
few percent of the energy

455
00:16:50,629 --> 00:16:48,060
of the Hiroshima atomic bomb okay when

456
00:16:52,970 --> 00:16:50,639
it exploded so from that you can you can

457
00:16:54,829 --> 00:16:52,980
measure the speed of the object by how

458
00:16:57,410 --> 00:16:54,839
fast this Fireball was moving at the

459
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:57,420
time that the explosion took place it's

460
00:17:02,930 --> 00:17:00,480
a ball of light and it's a very

461
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:02,940
different detection method then looking

462
00:17:08,210 --> 00:17:05,520
at which was just reflection of sunlight

463
00:17:10,990 --> 00:17:08,220
so muamua was roughly the size of a

464
00:17:13,789 --> 00:17:11,000
football field in order for us to see it

465
00:17:17,090 --> 00:17:13,799
and this one was half a meter you know

466
00:17:19,970 --> 00:17:17,100
like 200 times smaller and the reason we

467
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:19,980
could see an object so small half a

468
00:17:25,370 --> 00:17:22,319
meter in size is because it burned up It

469
00:17:27,490 --> 00:17:25,380
produced its own light and so you can

470
00:17:31,070 --> 00:17:27,500
tell the speed by which it was moving

471
00:17:32,510 --> 00:17:31,080
which was 45 kilometers per second and

472
00:17:35,090 --> 00:17:32,520
you can tell the density of the

473
00:17:37,970 --> 00:17:35,100
atmosphere in its vicinity when it

474
00:17:40,970 --> 00:17:37,980
exploded so you can tell how much stress

475
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:40,980
was exerted on this object when it

476
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:44,160
disintegrated so prior to that it was at

477
00:17:48,770 --> 00:17:45,840
lower density of air it didn't

478
00:17:50,510 --> 00:17:48,780
disintegrate it held together but as it

479
00:17:52,490 --> 00:17:50,520
got to a very dense environment

480
00:17:55,610 --> 00:17:52,500
eventually disintegrated because the

481
00:17:57,650 --> 00:17:55,620
stress the pressure acting on it was too

482
00:18:00,289 --> 00:17:57,660
large for its material strength to

483
00:18:02,210 --> 00:18:00,299
resist it so you can tell what is the

484
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:02,220
yield strength the material strength of

485
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:05,760
this object based on the you know it's

486
00:18:10,669 --> 00:18:08,880
speed and the density of air when it

487
00:18:13,730 --> 00:18:10,679
started disintegrating and it turns out

488
00:18:16,669 --> 00:18:13,740
to be twice tougher than iron

489
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:16,679
and that's very unusual because iron

490
00:18:21,770 --> 00:18:19,200
meteorites are only five percent of all

491
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:21,780
space rocks that hit the earth only five

492
00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:23,520
percent and this was

493
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:26,760
two times tougher than iron just think

494
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:30,000
about it and moreover if we go back in

495
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:32,880
time it actually moved faster than 95

496
00:18:38,210 --> 00:18:35,280
percent of all the stars in the vicinity

497
00:18:40,970 --> 00:18:38,220
of the Sun so it was an outlier both in

498
00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:40,980
terms of its speed and in terms of its

499
00:18:46,850 --> 00:18:43,200
composition and I say you know if it's

500
00:18:48,529 --> 00:18:46,860
such an outlier you know faster than 95

501
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:48,539
percent of the stars in the vicinity of

502
00:18:54,409 --> 00:18:52,320
the sun and the moving and having

503
00:18:56,510 --> 00:18:54,419
material strength tougher than iron

504
00:18:59,150 --> 00:18:56,520
tougher than all the other meteors in

505
00:19:02,029 --> 00:18:59,160
the catalog we better check whether it's

506
00:19:04,370 --> 00:19:02,039
an artifact whether it's artificially

507
00:19:07,610 --> 00:19:04,380
made and the way to check is to collect

508
00:19:09,710 --> 00:19:07,620
the fragments from the ocean floor and

509
00:19:12,289 --> 00:19:09,720
and check their composition whether it's

510
00:19:14,570 --> 00:19:12,299
an alloy that was artificially produced

511
00:19:16,990 --> 00:19:14,580
or whether it's an iron meteorite

512
00:19:20,029 --> 00:19:17,000
produced by nature but even if it's iron

513
00:19:22,669 --> 00:19:20,039
it it's rare it's unusual and the

514
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:22,679
question arises why the first meteor is

515
00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:25,200
of that composition so anyway this was

516
00:19:29,570 --> 00:19:28,200
an outlier definitely omuamua was an

517
00:19:33,230 --> 00:19:29,580
outlier for a completely different

518
00:19:34,850 --> 00:19:33,240
reason it was flat in shape based on the

519
00:19:37,130 --> 00:19:34,860
reflection of sunlight that was

520
00:19:39,169 --> 00:19:37,140
published as a scientific paper not by

521
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:39,179
me by someone actually the first

522
00:19:44,029 --> 00:19:41,760
discovery paper argued that it's flat

523
00:19:46,310 --> 00:19:44,039
most likely pancake shaped the first

524
00:19:48,350 --> 00:19:46,320
discovery paper quick message from a

525
00:19:50,210 --> 00:19:48,360
sponsor when I do eat meat I care about

526
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:50,220
the source of it both in terms of the

527
00:19:53,630 --> 00:19:52,080
quality of the food itself and about the

528
00:19:55,250 --> 00:19:53,640
standards that the place has with regard

529
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:55,260
to animal welfare and Humane Animal

530
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:57,360
treatment butcherbox takes the guesswork

531
00:20:01,330 --> 00:19:59,039
out of finding high quality Meat and

532
00:20:04,190 --> 00:20:01,340
seafood that you can trust given its 100

533
00:20:06,110 --> 00:20:04,200
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534
00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:06,120
raised crate free and wild caught

535
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,160
Seafood they're humanely raised no

536
00:20:12,169 --> 00:20:10,559
antibiotics no added hormones given that

537
00:20:13,850 --> 00:20:12,179
I'm a hermit one of my favorite features

538
00:20:15,289 --> 00:20:13,860
is that it's delivered straight to you

539
00:20:17,090 --> 00:20:15,299
straight to your door if you're in the

540
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:17,100
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541
00:20:20,930 --> 00:20:19,200
with no surprise fees the search for

542
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:20,940
outstanding deals on high quality

543
00:20:25,549 --> 00:20:23,039
protein ends here butcher box is

544
00:20:27,169 --> 00:20:25,559
offering listeners free New York strips

545
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:27,179
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546
00:20:32,450 --> 00:20:29,280
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547
00:20:34,970 --> 00:20:32,460
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548
00:20:36,890 --> 00:20:34,980
two 10 ounce New York strip steaks and

549
00:20:38,990 --> 00:20:36,900
eight ounces of Lobster Claw and knuckle

550
00:20:42,169 --> 00:20:39,000
meat free in your first order again

551
00:20:43,850 --> 00:20:42,179
that's butcherbox.com theories to claim

552
00:20:45,409 --> 00:20:43,860
this deal and then when I started

553
00:20:47,330 --> 00:20:45,419
suggesting that it may be artificial

554
00:20:49,850 --> 00:20:47,340
then people backed off and said no no no

555
00:20:52,610 --> 00:20:49,860
it's just a Flat Rock you know but then

556
00:20:55,070 --> 00:20:52,620
it turns out it's not a comet because

557
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,080
there was no commentary tale it was

558
00:20:59,090 --> 00:20:57,600
pushed away from the Sun despite the

559
00:21:01,430 --> 00:20:59,100
fact that there was no rocket effect

560
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:01,440
from commentary tale it came from a

561
00:21:06,350 --> 00:21:04,080
special frame of reference all kinds of

562
00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:06,360
weird properties can you explain that

563
00:21:10,610 --> 00:21:07,860
last part that it came from a special

564
00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:10,620
frame of reference yeah so there is this

565
00:21:15,830 --> 00:21:12,960
local stand up of rest

566
00:21:18,049 --> 00:21:15,840
which is the frame that you get to when

567
00:21:20,270 --> 00:21:18,059
you average over the random motions of

568
00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:20,280
the stars in the vicinity of the Sun

569
00:21:25,490 --> 00:21:22,200
it's sort of like the you can think of

570
00:21:27,409 --> 00:21:25,500
it as the local parking lot the galactic

571
00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:27,419
frame of reference and stars move

572
00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:30,600
relative to it because stars get kicks

573
00:21:35,630 --> 00:21:33,240
when they are born they are not born

574
00:21:37,789 --> 00:21:35,640
exactly at the frame of the Galaxy they

575
00:21:40,730 --> 00:21:37,799
are born in some Cloud that is moving

576
00:21:43,010 --> 00:21:40,740
rapidly to that frame uh or they get

577
00:21:46,010 --> 00:21:43,020
kicked afterwards so they develop a

578
00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:46,020
characteristic speed of 20 30 kilometers

579
00:21:49,730 --> 00:21:47,400
per second relative to the local

580
00:21:52,430 --> 00:21:49,740
standard of rest but you can take the

581
00:21:54,890 --> 00:21:52,440
average of the local stars and just get

582
00:21:57,470 --> 00:21:54,900
that frame of reference okay so some

583
00:21:59,510 --> 00:21:57,480
stars are moving to the right some sums

584
00:22:02,330 --> 00:21:59,520
to the left and you take the average you

585
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:02,340
get to that frame of reference now turns

586
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:05,760
out that was at rest in the local

587
00:22:10,850 --> 00:22:07,200
standard of rest

588
00:22:14,930 --> 00:22:10,860
and only one part one part in a in 500

589
00:22:16,909 --> 00:22:14,940
of all stars are so much at rest in that

590
00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:16,919
frame as

591
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:18,480
so you ask yourself

592
00:22:23,390 --> 00:22:20,400
you know what's the chance that it came

593
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:23,400
from a star it's one in 500.

594
00:22:28,669 --> 00:22:25,919
so that was very unusual about it then

595
00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:28,679
you ask what's the chance that it's flat

596
00:22:33,409 --> 00:22:31,440
you know we don't see objects that are

597
00:22:35,210 --> 00:22:33,419
10 times longer than they are thick and

598
00:22:36,890 --> 00:22:35,220
they're flat we don't see rocks like

599
00:22:38,510 --> 00:22:36,900
that very you know we don't see such

600
00:22:40,490 --> 00:22:38,520
things at most it's factor of three

601
00:22:43,430 --> 00:22:40,500
between the long axis and the short axis

602
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:43,440
and here it was at least 10 times longer

603
00:22:48,049 --> 00:22:45,600
than it was wide projected on the sky

604
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:48,059
based on the variation of reflected

605
00:22:52,130 --> 00:22:50,400
sunlight and then it didn't have a

606
00:22:54,649 --> 00:22:52,140
cometary tale but it was pushed away

607
00:22:57,529 --> 00:22:54,659
from the Sun so I suggest that it's a

608
00:23:00,590 --> 00:22:57,539
thin object just like a light sail or

609
00:23:02,990 --> 00:23:00,600
you know a surface layer of a you know a

610
00:23:05,330 --> 00:23:03,000
spacecraft that was torn apart or you

611
00:23:07,850 --> 00:23:05,340
know something artificial because we've

612
00:23:10,370 --> 00:23:07,860
never seen anything like it and then

613
00:23:12,110 --> 00:23:10,380
people said no way you know the

614
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:12,120
mainstream of astronomy there was a

615
00:23:17,950 --> 00:23:14,159
paper in nature magazine nature

616
00:23:21,230 --> 00:23:17,960
astronomy magazine a review paper saying

617
00:23:23,690 --> 00:23:21,240
is natural period explanation

618
00:23:25,570 --> 00:23:23,700
exclamation mark it's natural that's it

619
00:23:28,610 --> 00:23:25,580
there is no reason to consider other

620
00:23:30,830 --> 00:23:28,620
Alternatives and then a few months later

621
00:23:32,990 --> 00:23:30,840
there was a paper by a group of people

622
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:33,000
saying actually to explain the

623
00:23:38,510 --> 00:23:34,799
properties of a muamua like it was

624
00:23:40,490 --> 00:23:38,520
pushed away from the Sun maybe we need a

625
00:23:42,890 --> 00:23:40,500
cloud of dust particles like a Dust

626
00:23:45,470 --> 00:23:42,900
Bunny that is a hundred times less dense

627
00:23:47,390 --> 00:23:45,480
than air and it reflects sunlight

628
00:23:49,610 --> 00:23:47,400
therefore it's being pushed it's very

629
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:49,620
lightweight a hundred times less dense

630
00:23:55,430 --> 00:23:52,799
than air and here the problem is if it

631
00:23:57,169 --> 00:23:55,440
comes close to the sun such a cloud of

632
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:57,179
dust particles will get heated by

633
00:24:01,190 --> 00:23:58,559
hundreds of degrees will not maintain

634
00:24:03,830 --> 00:24:01,200
its Integrity okay so then another team

635
00:24:06,890 --> 00:24:03,840
a few months later and just to remind

636
00:24:08,690 --> 00:24:06,900
you all of this happened after the

637
00:24:11,930 --> 00:24:08,700
people who were on the review paper

638
00:24:13,970 --> 00:24:11,940
declared it must be natural period let's

639
00:24:17,450 --> 00:24:13,980
not discuss it anymore so then other

640
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:17,460
groups of mainstream astronomers said

641
00:24:22,430 --> 00:24:20,400
yeah yeah it is natural but it has to be

642
00:24:26,450 --> 00:24:22,440
a Dust Bunny no no that doesn't make

643
00:24:29,149 --> 00:24:26,460
sense okay so it has to be a hydrogen

644
00:24:30,890 --> 00:24:29,159
Iceberg a chunk of Frozen hydrogen so

645
00:24:33,049 --> 00:24:30,900
that when it evaporates just like a

646
00:24:35,930 --> 00:24:33,059
comet we can't see the hydrogen because

647
00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:35,940
it's transparent and therefore it is a

648
00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:38,280
comet but the comet made of material

649
00:24:44,270 --> 00:24:41,700
that we can't see when it evaporates uh

650
00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:44,280
so the problem with that is hydrogen

651
00:24:49,370 --> 00:24:47,220
evaporates very easily so it will not

652
00:24:50,870 --> 00:24:49,380
survive the journey we wrote a

653
00:24:53,330 --> 00:24:50,880
scientific paper about it with my

654
00:24:55,730 --> 00:24:53,340
colleague Sim Juan so the people who

655
00:24:57,770 --> 00:24:55,740
advocated for hydrogen Iceberg said yes

656
00:24:59,870 --> 00:24:57,780
that's correct there is a problem here

657
00:25:02,270 --> 00:24:59,880
it wouldn't survive very long distances

658
00:25:05,210 --> 00:25:02,280
in interstellar space so then another

659
00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:05,220
team came along and said oh yeah now we

660
00:25:10,190 --> 00:25:07,740
have the answer it's a nitrogen Iceberg

661
00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:10,200
so everyone's cheered and said yeah yeah

662
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:12,600
yeah and nitrogen Iceberg why nitrogen

663
00:25:16,250 --> 00:25:14,640
nitrogen is transparent so just like

664
00:25:19,070 --> 00:25:16,260
hydrogen evaporates hydrogen can

665
00:25:21,590 --> 00:25:19,080
evaporate where do you find chunks of

666
00:25:26,090 --> 00:25:21,600
Frozen nitrogen well the surface of

667
00:25:29,510 --> 00:25:26,100
Pluto has solid nitrogen so maybe there

668
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:29,520
are all these exoplutus out there and

669
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:32,880
they get bombarded all the time by rocks

670
00:25:39,230 --> 00:25:35,760
and then you get chips of those surfaces

671
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:39,240
and those chips are representing of the

672
00:25:44,149 --> 00:25:42,240
population of objects like okay the

673
00:25:46,310 --> 00:25:44,159
problem with that we showed with in a

674
00:25:48,830 --> 00:25:46,320
paper with my student there is just not

675
00:25:51,710 --> 00:25:48,840
enough material in solid hydrogen to a

676
00:25:53,690 --> 00:25:51,720
in solid nitrogen to explain a large

677
00:25:56,269 --> 00:25:53,700
enough population such that you would

678
00:25:58,970 --> 00:25:56,279
see or more so it just doesn't work out

679
00:26:01,370 --> 00:25:58,980
the mass budget so I say there are

680
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:01,380
problems with each of these mainstream

681
00:26:06,769 --> 00:26:03,919
explanations but moreover each of them

682
00:26:10,130 --> 00:26:06,779
advocates for something that we've never

683
00:26:13,070 --> 00:26:10,140
seen before so how can you say it must

684
00:26:14,029 --> 00:26:13,080
be natural period explain exclamation

685
00:26:17,690 --> 00:26:14,039
mark

686
00:26:19,789 --> 00:26:17,700
in a review paper and then come back and

687
00:26:21,710 --> 00:26:19,799
say ah yeah yeah it was this that or

688
00:26:23,690 --> 00:26:21,720
that things that we've never seen before

689
00:26:24,890 --> 00:26:23,700
if it was obvious that it's natural you

690
00:26:26,990 --> 00:26:24,900
wouldn't need to come up with these

691
00:26:28,610 --> 00:26:27,000
three explanations as published papers

692
00:26:32,029 --> 00:26:28,620
these are not just people proposing it

693
00:26:34,010 --> 00:26:32,039
on a blog or on Twitter these are real

694
00:26:36,289 --> 00:26:34,020
papers that took months for people to

695
00:26:37,970 --> 00:26:36,299
write and each of these invokes

696
00:26:41,690 --> 00:26:37,980
something we've never seen before each

697
00:26:43,490 --> 00:26:41,700
of them has problems and I say if it's

698
00:26:45,529 --> 00:26:43,500
something we've never seen before we

699
00:26:47,149 --> 00:26:45,539
should live on the table the possibility

700
00:26:50,510 --> 00:26:47,159
that's artificial

701
00:26:53,149 --> 00:26:50,520
but no that is completely moved out of

702
00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:53,159
the table and I say well that's not the

703
00:26:56,810 --> 00:26:54,840
scientific process the scientific

704
00:27:00,649 --> 00:26:56,820
process is collecting evidence so the

705
00:27:03,049 --> 00:27:00,659
Galileo project one of the goals is

706
00:27:05,149 --> 00:27:03,059
aside from the expedition to scoop the

707
00:27:07,970 --> 00:27:05,159
ocean floor to look for the fragments of

708
00:27:11,149 --> 00:27:07,980
of the first meteor the first

709
00:27:14,690 --> 00:27:11,159
Interstellar meteor we are also planning

710
00:27:16,190 --> 00:27:14,700
a rendezvous with the next omuamua so

711
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:16,200
that we can collect more evidence you

712
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:18,480
know just the way Galileo said you know

713
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:21,360
let's get data and if you are a

714
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:23,520
philosopher that knows the answer in

715
00:27:28,130 --> 00:27:25,200
advance like or more must be natural

716
00:27:29,390 --> 00:27:28,140
then you say I don't need any data but

717
00:27:31,010 --> 00:27:29,400
you are behaving just like the

718
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:31,020
philosophers during the days of Galileo

719
00:27:34,250 --> 00:27:32,640
you don't want to look for a telescope

720
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:34,260
because you think you know the answer

721
00:27:38,510 --> 00:27:36,240
because you are jealous of the attention

722
00:27:40,909 --> 00:27:38,520
it gets because of all kinds of reasons

723
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:40,919
I don't care what they are because you

724
00:27:44,450 --> 00:27:42,720
are an expert that worked on rocks all

725
00:27:47,390 --> 00:27:44,460
your life and you want everything in the

726
00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:47,400
sky to be rocks that's your problem we

727
00:27:51,230 --> 00:27:49,320
will try to collect data and figure it

728
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:51,240
out that's the way science is done

729
00:27:56,690 --> 00:27:54,000
without prejudice and if we take a high

730
00:27:59,630 --> 00:27:56,700
resolution image of the next omuamua and

731
00:28:02,210 --> 00:27:59,640
see that it's a nitrogen Iceberg stop it

732
00:28:04,250 --> 00:28:02,220
but let's first see you can't say it

733
00:28:07,190 --> 00:28:04,260
must be natural until you see the

734
00:28:09,230 --> 00:28:07,200
nitrogen Iceberg okay so

735
00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:09,240
um the Galileo project is designing a

736
00:28:15,710 --> 00:28:11,820
space mission and then it's sort of like

737
00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:15,720
dating the next tomoamua uh-huh yeah I

738
00:28:21,710 --> 00:28:18,480
saw a blog post on that yeah so dating

739
00:28:24,649 --> 00:28:21,720
you know we have a dating app which is

740
00:28:26,750 --> 00:28:24,659
the Vera Rubin Observatory uh there is

741
00:28:29,149 --> 00:28:26,760
the Legacy survey of space and time and

742
00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:29,159
uh we'll start operations in a year in

743
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:32,220
Chile that's a a telescope that will

744
00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:36,240
have a camera with 3.2 billion pixels

745
00:28:42,769 --> 00:28:38,880
just think about it your cell phone has

746
00:28:45,649 --> 00:28:42,779
a camera of a few million pixels here

747
00:28:48,590 --> 00:28:45,659
I'm talking 3.2 billion so that's a

748
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:48,600
factor of a thousand more pixels in a

749
00:28:55,070 --> 00:28:51,600
year on a telescope serving the southern

750
00:28:58,130 --> 00:28:55,080
sky from Chile every four days it will

751
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:58,140
scan the entire sky so there is a high

752
00:29:02,510 --> 00:29:00,000
likelihood that every few months it will

753
00:29:04,789 --> 00:29:02,520
find another object like omomoa sort of

754
00:29:07,070 --> 00:29:04,799
like a dating app we will look at the

755
00:29:08,630 --> 00:29:07,080
data that comes from the pipeline of

756
00:29:10,370 --> 00:29:08,640
this telescope which will be public

757
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:10,380
because it's funded by the National

758
00:29:15,710 --> 00:29:13,440
Science Foundation yeah and most of the

759
00:29:17,630 --> 00:29:15,720
time we will swipe to to the left we

760
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:17,640
will say no this object is Not Unusual

761
00:29:22,850 --> 00:29:19,919
enough but if it finds an Interstellar

762
00:29:25,549 --> 00:29:22,860
object that is as weird as

763
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,559
we might want to invest a billion

764
00:29:29,210 --> 00:29:27,360
dollars in sending a space mission that

765
00:29:31,789 --> 00:29:29,220
will come close to it because you know a

766
00:29:33,889 --> 00:29:31,799
picture is worth a thousand words and in

767
00:29:35,810 --> 00:29:33,899
my case it's worth 66 000 words the

768
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:35,820
number of words in my book I will need

769
00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:36,960
to write a book if we had a high

770
00:29:41,090 --> 00:29:39,000
resolution image the other thing we have

771
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:41,100
is the web telescope

772
00:29:46,310 --> 00:29:43,440
the web telescope is about a million

773
00:29:50,690 --> 00:29:46,320
miles away from Earth and it offers a

774
00:29:53,870 --> 00:29:50,700
fantastic vantage point because you look

775
00:29:56,269 --> 00:29:53,880
at the object let's say the next from

776
00:29:57,769 --> 00:29:56,279
different directions you look at it from

777
00:30:00,409 --> 00:29:57,779
Earth and you look at it from the web

778
00:30:02,090 --> 00:30:00,419
telescope and then you can trade it's

779
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:02,100
just like having two eyes you may ask

780
00:30:07,370 --> 00:30:05,279
why do we have two eyes we have two eyes

781
00:30:10,610 --> 00:30:07,380
because then we get the third dimension

782
00:30:13,010 --> 00:30:10,620
because one eye sees an object that

783
00:30:14,810 --> 00:30:13,020
could be of a threat for our survival

784
00:30:16,370 --> 00:30:14,820
you know this is an object from One

785
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:16,380
Direction and then the second die sees

786
00:30:20,269 --> 00:30:18,240
it from another direction from that you

787
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:20,279
can gauge the distance and that helps

788
00:30:25,010 --> 00:30:22,559
for survival that's why we have two eyes

789
00:30:27,230 --> 00:30:25,020
all those people that existed before us

790
00:30:29,029 --> 00:30:27,240
with one eye could not figure out the

791
00:30:32,029 --> 00:30:29,039
distance and the tiger would eat them

792
00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:32,039
okay so it was important for Survivor to

793
00:30:36,529 --> 00:30:34,140
have two eyes but in the context of the

794
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:36,539
web telescope you know we look at this

795
00:30:42,350 --> 00:30:39,600
object from the web position which is a

796
00:30:44,570 --> 00:30:42,360
million miles away and from Earth we can

797
00:30:46,909 --> 00:30:44,580
pinpoint the trajectory in three

798
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:46,919
dimensions of the web telescope so we

799
00:30:51,529 --> 00:30:48,720
can figure out if there are any forces

800
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:51,539
other than gravity acting on the object

801
00:30:56,269 --> 00:30:53,760
if it's propelled by something other

802
00:30:58,850 --> 00:30:56,279
than gravity and if there is no cometary

803
00:31:01,310 --> 00:30:58,860
tail you know maybe it's something else

804
00:31:02,990 --> 00:31:01,320
and also the web telescope can look at

805
00:31:05,510 --> 00:31:03,000
it in the infrared and infer the

806
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:05,520
composition so we will get much more

807
00:31:11,570 --> 00:31:08,399
data in with the help of the web

808
00:31:13,010 --> 00:31:11,580
telescope and then the third branch just

809
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:13,020
to finish the answer to your question

810
00:31:19,610 --> 00:31:15,360
the third branch of the Galileo project

811
00:31:21,169 --> 00:31:19,620
has to do with the report that came out

812
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:21,179
of the the Director of National

813
00:31:25,490 --> 00:31:24,480
Intelligence Avril Haynes to the U.S

814
00:31:28,250 --> 00:31:25,500
Congress

815
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:28,260
a year ago in June on June the June

816
00:31:34,430 --> 00:31:32,399
report yeah the June 2021 and that led

817
00:31:37,370 --> 00:31:34,440
to the establishment of a new office in

818
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:37,380
government they used to refer to these

819
00:31:44,690 --> 00:31:40,080
objects that they cannot identify as

820
00:31:46,990 --> 00:31:44,700
unidentified aerial phenomena UAP and

821
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:47,000
now they're talking Congress just

822
00:31:52,130 --> 00:31:49,440
established a new piece of legislation

823
00:31:54,669 --> 00:31:52,140
that they would like to pass and they uh

824
00:31:58,430 --> 00:31:54,679
suggest that these objects are also

825
00:32:02,029 --> 00:31:58,440
transmedium they go from water to air to

826
00:32:03,889 --> 00:32:02,039
space so you know it apparently there is

827
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:03,899
some classified data that leads them in

828
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:07,200
that direction but also NASA decided to

829
00:32:12,350 --> 00:32:10,320
establish a a committee that will

830
00:32:15,289 --> 00:32:12,360
evaluate whether scientific research

831
00:32:16,730 --> 00:32:15,299
will be funded on these objects we are

832
00:32:19,130 --> 00:32:16,740
already doing it with the Galileo

833
00:32:22,730 --> 00:32:19,140
project so what happened was that when

834
00:32:25,430 --> 00:32:22,740
this report was delivered to Congress

835
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:25,440
um I suggested to NASA because Bill

836
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:27,840
Nelson said scientists should get

837
00:32:33,250 --> 00:32:30,720
engaged so I immediately contacted the

838
00:32:35,990 --> 00:32:33,260
person under him Thomas

839
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:36,000
who is responsible for science at Nasa

840
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:36,960
and I said

841
00:32:41,090 --> 00:32:39,120
that it will be my pleasure and

842
00:32:45,590 --> 00:32:41,100
privilege to help NASA

843
00:32:47,630 --> 00:32:45,600
uh and and make his boss happy and he

844
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:47,640
said why don't you send a white paper I

845
00:32:50,750 --> 00:32:49,440
submitted a white paper suggesting a

846
00:32:53,870 --> 00:32:50,760
research program

847
00:32:59,330 --> 00:32:53,880
and I never heard back and then a year

848
00:33:02,630 --> 00:32:59,340
later uh in June 2022 they

849
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:02,640
uh announced without me knowing that

850
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:06,720
they have a this this committee that so

851
00:33:14,330 --> 00:33:10,799
that was uh triggered by this uh white

852
00:33:16,009 --> 00:33:14,340
paper that they sent but um and now they

853
00:33:17,870 --> 00:33:16,019
regard me as having a conflict of

854
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:17,880
interest because in the meantime you

855
00:33:23,630 --> 00:33:20,399
know around the same time of June July

856
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:23,640
2021 a few multi-billionaires came to

857
00:33:28,130 --> 00:33:25,919
the porch of my home they were inspired

858
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:28,140
by my book extraterrestrial and they

859
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:30,000
gave me three million dollars

860
00:33:35,330 --> 00:33:33,120
to establish the Galileo project and so

861
00:33:37,970 --> 00:33:35,340
at the end of exactly a month after the

862
00:33:40,730 --> 00:33:37,980
odni report to Congress we announced the

863
00:33:43,130 --> 00:33:40,740
Galileo project and the third branch of

864
00:33:44,750 --> 00:33:43,140
the Galileo project is trying to build a

865
00:33:47,149 --> 00:33:44,760
suite of instruments

866
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,159
uh it's already on the roof of the

867
00:33:51,950 --> 00:33:49,919
Harvard College Observatory right now we

868
00:33:54,529 --> 00:33:51,960
are testing it a suite of instruments

869
00:33:57,590 --> 00:33:54,539
that take video of the sky in the

870
00:34:00,529 --> 00:33:57,600
infrared the optical band audio band

871
00:34:02,690 --> 00:34:00,539
and analyzes it with artificial

872
00:34:04,610 --> 00:34:02,700
intelligence algorithms and we are

873
00:34:07,730 --> 00:34:04,620
testing it in the coming months and

874
00:34:10,849 --> 00:34:07,740
hopefully by 2023 we'll start collecting

875
00:34:13,730 --> 00:34:10,859
data at places where there are reports

876
00:34:15,530 --> 00:34:13,740
on these objects and then you know

877
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:15,540
that's the third branch of the Galileo

878
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,040
projects we're already doing this

879
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:19,440
research uh and we should see it's a

880
00:34:22,190 --> 00:34:21,359
phishing Expedition we should see if we

881
00:34:26,810 --> 00:34:22,200
find

882
00:34:30,669 --> 00:34:26,820
natural objects only or maybe some

883
00:34:34,369 --> 00:34:30,679
human-made objects natural or you know

884
00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:34,379
like for example birds or bugs or

885
00:34:41,089 --> 00:34:38,580
meteors or or Lightnings uh human-made

886
00:34:43,369 --> 00:34:41,099
objects or drones airplanes satellites

887
00:34:45,950 --> 00:34:43,379
and so weather balloons but the question

888
00:34:51,950 --> 00:34:45,960
is whether there is something else and

889
00:34:54,409 --> 00:34:51,960
on November 10th 2021 uh I was invited

890
00:34:56,750 --> 00:34:54,419
to a forum The ignacius Forum at the

891
00:35:01,490 --> 00:34:56,760
Washington National Cathedral uh

892
00:35:03,109 --> 00:35:01,500
together with Jeff Bezos Bill Nelson and

893
00:35:05,150 --> 00:35:03,119
Avril Haynes the Director of National

894
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:05,160
Intelligence so when I was in The Green

895
00:35:11,630 --> 00:35:09,119
Room with evil Haynes I approached her

896
00:35:13,910 --> 00:35:11,640
and said what do you think what is your

897
00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:13,920
gut feeling about the nature of these

898
00:35:19,130 --> 00:35:16,260
objects that you reported about because

899
00:35:20,569 --> 00:35:19,140
she had a bachelor's degree in

900
00:35:22,970 --> 00:35:20,579
theoretical physics from the University

901
00:35:25,370 --> 00:35:22,980
of Chicago so you know she understands

902
00:35:27,950 --> 00:35:25,380
my language as a physicist and I said

903
00:35:30,589 --> 00:35:27,960
what what do you think they are and she

904
00:35:32,930 --> 00:35:30,599
said I don't know

905
00:35:34,849 --> 00:35:32,940
and I think frankly you know the

906
00:35:37,790 --> 00:35:34,859
government the intelligence agencies

907
00:35:39,890 --> 00:35:37,800
they are not a scientific organization I

908
00:35:43,790 --> 00:35:39,900
think it's time for scientists to engage

909
00:35:45,890 --> 00:35:43,800
because the sky is not classified it's

910
00:35:48,050 --> 00:35:45,900
only the sensors that the government is

911
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:48,060
using that are classified and that's why

912
00:35:52,609 --> 00:35:50,400
the data is classified so the Galileo

913
00:35:54,970 --> 00:35:52,619
project will try to break this open in

914
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:54,980
the sense of you have all these

915
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:57,119
non-professional people reporting about

916
00:36:02,690 --> 00:36:00,000
things where you know the the images are

917
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:02,700
fuzzy there are anecdotal we don't know

918
00:36:05,930 --> 00:36:04,320
the truth and and then you have the

919
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:05,940
classified data that we don't have

920
00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:08,160
access to so the gorilla project will

921
00:36:14,569 --> 00:36:12,720
try to establish a data stream that is

922
00:36:16,849 --> 00:36:14,579
open to the public the way science is

923
00:36:19,370 --> 00:36:16,859
done everyone will be able to access the

924
00:36:21,530 --> 00:36:19,380
data and it will be of high quality we

925
00:36:25,730 --> 00:36:21,540
will know exactly what our instruments

926
00:36:28,870 --> 00:36:25,740
are doing unlike those cameras on the

927
00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:28,880
jittery cockpits of of fighter jet

928
00:36:32,930 --> 00:36:31,440
airplanes you know like we we don't know

929
00:36:35,630 --> 00:36:32,940
exactly what they were doing at the time

930
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:35,640
so all of this is to bring the subject

931
00:36:39,410 --> 00:36:37,200
to the mainstream of science because

932
00:36:42,109 --> 00:36:39,420
because you know science should address

933
00:36:44,089 --> 00:36:42,119
that the main task of science is to

934
00:36:47,089 --> 00:36:44,099
address questions that are of interest

935
00:36:50,750 --> 00:36:47,099
to society are of interest to the

936
00:36:53,450 --> 00:36:50,760
government and it's just it feels just

937
00:36:55,609 --> 00:36:53,460
inappropriate that this subject is

938
00:36:57,290 --> 00:36:55,619
ridiculed and pushed aside from the

939
00:36:59,630 --> 00:36:57,300
mainstream of science

940
00:37:02,210 --> 00:36:59,640
okay so let me see if I got this correct

941
00:37:04,430 --> 00:37:02,220
there are three branches or three goals

942
00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:04,440
in the near term for the Galileo project

943
00:37:09,290 --> 00:37:06,900
so one is to go and look in the ocean

944
00:37:11,630 --> 00:37:09,300
floor for the meteorite that you

945
00:37:14,510 --> 00:37:11,640
mentioned initially so that's cneos I

946
00:37:17,150 --> 00:37:14,520
believe in 2014. okay then you have the

947
00:37:18,790 --> 00:37:17,160
the search for umuamua like objects and

948
00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:18,800
that I believe you mentioned a Chilean

949
00:37:22,910 --> 00:37:21,180
Observatory yes the Vera Rubin

950
00:37:24,589 --> 00:37:22,920
Observatory yes okay okay so that's not

951
00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:24,599
the Galileo projects that's what you

952
00:37:28,370 --> 00:37:26,400
would rent out is that how it works well

953
00:37:30,710 --> 00:37:28,380
this is yeah the dating app think about

954
00:37:32,329 --> 00:37:30,720
it as it will suggest objects of

955
00:37:34,910 --> 00:37:32,339
interest that came from outside the

956
00:37:37,609 --> 00:37:34,920
solar system that we can follow up on

957
00:37:39,650 --> 00:37:37,619
either by using existing telescopes to

958
00:37:42,109 --> 00:37:39,660
look at them or sending a space mission

959
00:37:45,770 --> 00:37:42,119
that will take a close-up photograph

960
00:37:48,109 --> 00:37:45,780
okay and then also you would get some

961
00:37:50,030 --> 00:37:48,119
other form of verification from the

962
00:37:51,530 --> 00:37:50,040
James Webb Telescope now I don't know

963
00:37:54,109 --> 00:37:51,540
how that works are you allowed to just

964
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:54,119
say hey James Webb Telescope people can

965
00:37:57,890 --> 00:37:55,680
you tell me what you saw at this point

966
00:38:00,410 --> 00:37:57,900
or do you tell them hey James Webb

967
00:38:01,790 --> 00:38:00,420
Telescope people can you now look in

968
00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:01,800
this direction like how does that work

969
00:38:08,510 --> 00:38:04,320
do you have to rent it yeah actually

970
00:38:10,250 --> 00:38:08,520
if okay if we announce the discovery of

971
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:10,260
any another Interstellar object

972
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:12,480
especially if it looks like or more in

973
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:14,160
terms of being weird

974
00:38:19,069 --> 00:38:16,079
I will not need to do much because

975
00:38:22,130 --> 00:38:19,079
immediately I mean usually there is some

976
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:22,140
discretionary time that belongs to the

977
00:38:26,930 --> 00:38:24,480
director of the Space Telescope Science

978
00:38:29,569 --> 00:38:26,940
Institute or other people have some time

979
00:38:33,470 --> 00:38:29,579
that they will be happy to donate for

980
00:38:35,390 --> 00:38:33,480
this because despite all of all you hear

981
00:38:38,569 --> 00:38:35,400
from people who are not practitioners of

982
00:38:41,690 --> 00:38:38,579
science you you see them writing tweets

983
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:41,700
or writing blogs basically very

984
00:38:45,950 --> 00:38:43,920
aggressively attacking the possibility

985
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:45,960
that such an object is of interest and

986
00:38:50,329 --> 00:38:48,240
saying oh it must be natural we've seen

987
00:38:51,470 --> 00:38:50,339
a lot of these despite what they say

988
00:38:53,690 --> 00:38:51,480
these are people that are not

989
00:38:56,569 --> 00:38:53,700
professionals I think the scientific

990
00:38:59,210 --> 00:38:56,579
Community once we find more objects of

991
00:39:01,490 --> 00:38:59,220
this type it will be a very important

992
00:39:04,190 --> 00:39:01,500
question to figure out their nature okay

993
00:39:07,370 --> 00:39:04,200
because just think about it if there are

994
00:39:10,730 --> 00:39:07,380
hydrogen icebergs you know those are not

995
00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:10,740
produced in uh planetary systems that

996
00:39:15,650 --> 00:39:13,020
are those are potentially produced in

997
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:15,660
molecular clouds we've never ever seen a

998
00:39:20,510 --> 00:39:18,240
chunk of Frozen hydrogen produced by

999
00:39:22,430 --> 00:39:20,520
Nature that would be a great discovery

1000
00:39:25,790 --> 00:39:22,440
we've never seen a chunk of Frozen

1001
00:39:27,829 --> 00:39:25,800
nitrogen in the solar system and the

1002
00:39:29,569 --> 00:39:27,839
claim is no no you will not find it in

1003
00:39:31,550 --> 00:39:29,579
the solar system because these chunks

1004
00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:31,560
were produced in the distant past and

1005
00:39:34,910 --> 00:39:33,119
none of them survived and therefore

1006
00:39:36,410 --> 00:39:34,920
there is nothing in the solar system but

1007
00:39:38,390 --> 00:39:36,420
what we find are chunks of Frozen

1008
00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:38,400
nitrogen coming into the solar system

1009
00:39:45,170 --> 00:39:40,800
from other planeters oh really that's

1010
00:39:47,630 --> 00:39:45,180
that's the sort of popular idea by some

1011
00:39:49,849 --> 00:39:47,640
people right now for the origin of a

1012
00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:49,859
woman okay suppose we find that it's a

1013
00:39:53,329 --> 00:39:51,599
nitrogen aspect that would also be an

1014
00:39:55,849 --> 00:39:53,339
important Revelation because nobody

1015
00:39:59,329 --> 00:39:55,859
expected it before or more nobody okay

1016
00:40:01,670 --> 00:39:59,339
and I say it may not be either of them

1017
00:40:03,410 --> 00:40:01,680
and it may not be a Dust Bar even if

1018
00:40:05,690 --> 00:40:03,420
okay suppose we see it kind of money

1019
00:40:07,730 --> 00:40:05,700
apart you know imagine those clouds of

1020
00:40:08,930 --> 00:40:07,740
dust particles floating around and that

1021
00:40:10,990 --> 00:40:08,940
would be a revelation it's something

1022
00:40:13,490 --> 00:40:11,000
completely new that we've never expected

1023
00:40:16,970 --> 00:40:13,500
so in any case it will be a major

1024
00:40:19,550 --> 00:40:16,980
Discovery and and therefore I think that

1025
00:40:22,010 --> 00:40:19,560
the web telescope time will be allocated

1026
00:40:25,130 --> 00:40:22,020
almost instantly to look at these things

1027
00:40:26,750 --> 00:40:25,140
and I will you know in the worst case I

1028
00:40:28,370 --> 00:40:26,760
will apply for time together with

1029
00:40:29,690 --> 00:40:28,380
colleagues but I don't think it will be

1030
00:40:32,450 --> 00:40:29,700
necessary I think there will be enough

1031
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:32,460
curious astronomers that would like to

1032
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:34,560
figure out what these things are and of

1033
00:40:40,010 --> 00:40:36,240
course once we observe a few of those

1034
00:40:41,870 --> 00:40:40,020
then we would have a better clue and you

1035
00:40:44,810 --> 00:40:41,880
know whatever it is it would be fun to

1036
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:44,820
figure it out and I think uh even those

1037
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:47,040
that advocate for natural origin would

1038
00:40:52,730 --> 00:40:50,880
like to demonstrate it with data so even

1039
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:52,740
though they are biased you know it's

1040
00:40:56,270 --> 00:40:54,960
just like taking those philosophers at

1041
00:40:58,250 --> 00:40:56,280
the time of Galileo and telling them

1042
00:40:59,690 --> 00:40:58,260
look through the telescope you know we

1043
00:41:01,970 --> 00:40:59,700
are not telling you what you would see

1044
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:01,980
just look through them they refuse to do

1045
00:41:06,890 --> 00:41:05,040
that back then but now I think we live

1046
00:41:09,410 --> 00:41:06,900
at a different time and once we have the

1047
00:41:11,390 --> 00:41:09,420
data from web that nobody can censor by

1048
00:41:13,970 --> 00:41:11,400
the way it's not as if you can put the

1049
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:13,980
people that constructed the web in how

1050
00:41:19,970 --> 00:41:16,560
house arrest that is not the data will

1051
00:41:23,569 --> 00:41:19,980
be public no matter what so it will make

1052
00:41:25,190 --> 00:41:23,579
no sense to ignore the data so as long

1053
00:41:27,290 --> 00:41:25,200
as we look at it just to demonstrate

1054
00:41:29,329 --> 00:41:27,300
that the objects are natural that's okay

1055
00:41:31,849 --> 00:41:29,339
they can be they can think whatever they

1056
00:41:34,490 --> 00:41:31,859
want but eventually it will be clear if

1057
00:41:36,109 --> 00:41:34,500
it's if it's not natural you know so so

1058
00:41:38,990 --> 00:41:36,119
I'm saying I'm not saying all the

1059
00:41:41,390 --> 00:41:39,000
objects must be artificial you know it

1060
00:41:43,970 --> 00:41:41,400
it will be just like going on the beach

1061
00:41:45,290 --> 00:41:43,980
you know most of the time you find rocks

1062
00:41:47,569 --> 00:41:45,300
and seashells that are naturally

1063
00:41:50,510 --> 00:41:47,579
produced the solar system contains a lot

1064
00:41:53,150 --> 00:41:50,520
of those but every now and then you may

1065
00:41:55,730 --> 00:41:53,160
bump into a plastic bottle and that's

1066
00:41:58,670 --> 00:41:55,740
you know those outliers are what we

1067
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:58,680
should be looking for and checking if

1068
00:42:03,050 --> 00:42:00,000
they exist

1069
00:42:04,970 --> 00:42:03,060
okay so even if another emuamua object

1070
00:42:06,890 --> 00:42:04,980
is found and people think that it's

1071
00:42:08,270 --> 00:42:06,900
natural it's still abnormal and so they

1072
00:42:10,430 --> 00:42:08,280
would have an incentive to look for it

1073
00:42:11,930 --> 00:42:10,440
because nitrogen or a block of nitrogen

1074
00:42:14,930 --> 00:42:11,940
a block of hydrogen a block of a Dust

1075
00:42:17,810 --> 00:42:14,940
Bunny of some sort is aberrant exactly

1076
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:17,820
I should tell you um that this is the

1077
00:42:25,130 --> 00:42:22,800
third phase of the three stage story uh

1078
00:42:28,510 --> 00:42:25,140
the story started about a century ago

1079
00:42:32,450 --> 00:42:28,520
okay uh around the

1080
00:42:36,050 --> 00:42:32,460
1925 that was when Cecilia Payne

1081
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:36,060
kapashkin was a young scientist who

1082
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:38,960
finished that wanted to have the first

1083
00:42:47,630 --> 00:42:44,240
PhD doctoral degree in astronomy at

1084
00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:47,640
Radcliffe Harvard back then how about

1085
00:42:53,510 --> 00:42:50,160
you what you know the the she was at the

1086
00:42:55,970 --> 00:42:53,520
Radcliffe uh Institute but then she

1087
00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:55,980
wanted to get a degree in astronomy uh

1088
00:43:02,270 --> 00:42:57,599
and that was not possible she was the

1089
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:02,280
first one okay now her PhD back in 19 20

1090
00:43:08,569 --> 00:43:05,760
25 okay was about the Sun

1091
00:43:11,450 --> 00:43:08,579
and that was just around after quantum

1092
00:43:15,349 --> 00:43:11,460
mechanics was invented and so forth and

1093
00:43:17,150 --> 00:43:15,359
she realized that based on the spectrum

1094
00:43:18,829 --> 00:43:17,160
of a mission from the Sun that the

1095
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:18,839
surface of the Sun is made mostly of

1096
00:43:22,849 --> 00:43:19,920
hydrogen

1097
00:43:25,250 --> 00:43:22,859
now at the time people thought oh you

1098
00:43:27,530 --> 00:43:25,260
know we know what the earth is made of

1099
00:43:28,490 --> 00:43:27,540
so the sun is made of the same stuff as

1100
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:28,500
the Earth

1101
00:43:34,309 --> 00:43:31,680
okay and that was the prevailing

1102
00:43:37,250 --> 00:43:34,319
Paradigm everyone believed in that so

1103
00:43:39,170 --> 00:43:37,260
she presented her thesis saying actually

1104
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:39,180
it looks like the Sun at least the

1105
00:43:41,809 --> 00:43:40,800
surface of the Sun is made mostly of

1106
00:43:46,130 --> 00:43:41,819
hydrogen

1107
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:46,140
and on her PhD thesis committee was the

1108
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:48,960
most prominent uh astronomer at the time

1109
00:43:53,390 --> 00:43:52,319
that was an expert on Stars he was the

1110
00:43:56,809 --> 00:43:53,400
director of Princeton University

1111
00:43:59,450 --> 00:43:56,819
Observatory Henry Norris Russell okay

1112
00:44:02,390 --> 00:43:59,460
and he said to her

1113
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:02,400
that's impossible take this statement

1114
00:44:08,030 --> 00:44:05,520
out of your thesis it makes no sense to

1115
00:44:09,890 --> 00:44:08,040
argue that the son everyone knows that

1116
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:09,900
the sun has the same composition as the

1117
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:10,800
Earth

1118
00:44:16,910 --> 00:44:13,920
so she was a young female scientist at

1119
00:44:18,710 --> 00:44:16,920
the time decided okay well if the expert

1120
00:44:21,230 --> 00:44:18,720
tells me that you know otherwise I might

1121
00:44:26,569 --> 00:44:21,240
not get a PhD she took it out he

1122
00:44:30,109 --> 00:44:26,579
dissuaded her and then for four years he

1123
00:44:32,750 --> 00:44:30,119
tried to analyze his own data and

1124
00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:32,760
published the paper four years later

1125
00:44:39,050 --> 00:44:36,000
saying that Cecilia was right

1126
00:44:42,109 --> 00:44:39,060
okay indeed the sun is made mostly of

1127
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:42,119
hydrogen okay now the funny part of the

1128
00:44:47,390 --> 00:44:43,680
story and that's also an important

1129
00:44:48,650 --> 00:44:47,400
lesson is that about

1130
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:48,660
um

1131
00:44:54,770 --> 00:44:51,680
80 years later

1132
00:44:57,230 --> 00:44:54,780
there was a visiting committee to the

1133
00:44:59,210 --> 00:44:57,240
Princeton University

1134
00:45:01,630 --> 00:44:59,220
Department of astrophysical Sciences

1135
00:45:04,190 --> 00:45:01,640
okay and

1136
00:45:07,309 --> 00:45:04,200
the chair of that department at

1137
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:07,319
Princeton said we have a very

1138
00:45:11,470 --> 00:45:08,880
prestigious

1139
00:45:14,990 --> 00:45:11,480
history of the department

1140
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:15,000
if you go back in time there was the

1141
00:45:20,089 --> 00:45:17,520
famous astronomer Henry Norris Russell

1142
00:45:21,650 --> 00:45:20,099
who discovered that the sun is made of

1143
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:21,660
hydrogen

1144
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:23,760
so then there was a member of that

1145
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:25,920
committee uh

1146
00:45:29,930 --> 00:45:27,839
uh who corrected him and said look it

1147
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:29,940
was not Henry Norris Russell it was

1148
00:45:34,370 --> 00:45:32,160
actually Cecilia pen kobachi and he

1149
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:34,380
tried to argue otherwise

1150
00:45:39,530 --> 00:45:37,680
and the lesson of this story is that

1151
00:45:41,630 --> 00:45:39,540
history depends on who you are who

1152
00:45:45,410 --> 00:45:41,640
writes it

1153
00:45:47,569 --> 00:45:45,420
um but anyway so that's step one when we

1154
00:45:50,150 --> 00:45:47,579
realized we thought that we see things

1155
00:45:52,130 --> 00:45:50,160
in in our backyard here on Earth and

1156
00:45:55,430 --> 00:45:52,140
everything else like the sun is made of

1157
00:45:57,170 --> 00:45:55,440
the same stuff well mistake okay so a

1158
00:45:58,670 --> 00:45:57,180
young person named Cecilia pencopason

1159
00:46:00,890 --> 00:45:58,680
who later became the chair of the

1160
00:46:03,650 --> 00:46:00,900
astronomy department at Harvard realized

1161
00:46:06,589 --> 00:46:03,660
it first then the second part of the

1162
00:46:11,930 --> 00:46:06,599
story is in 1933 about a decade later

1163
00:46:14,510 --> 00:46:11,940
Fritz Wiki young in his 30s realized

1164
00:46:16,550 --> 00:46:14,520
that groups are clusters of galaxies are

1165
00:46:19,010 --> 00:46:16,560
made mostly of stuff that we don't find

1166
00:46:19,849 --> 00:46:19,020
in the solar system he called it dark

1167
00:46:21,950 --> 00:46:19,859
matter

1168
00:46:25,069 --> 00:46:21,960
Okay so

1169
00:46:27,650 --> 00:46:25,079
for 40 years this subject was ridiculed

1170
00:46:30,589 --> 00:46:27,660
including by colleagues within his

1171
00:46:33,290 --> 00:46:30,599
department at Caltech Pasadena where he

1172
00:46:35,089 --> 00:46:33,300
was the professor that he was not his

1173
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:35,099
view was not popular people just

1174
00:46:39,770 --> 00:46:37,440
ridiculed it said doesn't make any sense

1175
00:46:41,569 --> 00:46:39,780
that most of the matter in the universe

1176
00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:41,579
is of a type that you don't find in the

1177
00:46:46,670 --> 00:46:44,160
solar system okay once again the same

1178
00:46:47,870 --> 00:46:46,680
story just like this Earth and the Sun

1179
00:46:50,930 --> 00:46:47,880
now it's we're talking about the

1180
00:46:53,569 --> 00:46:50,940
universe and the solar system and by now

1181
00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:53,579
if you ask any student or postdoc they

1182
00:46:59,329 --> 00:46:56,460
would say of course no question about it

1183
00:47:01,730 --> 00:46:59,339
eighty percent 82 percent of the matter

1184
00:47:03,650 --> 00:47:01,740
in the universe is made of stuff that is

1185
00:47:05,450 --> 00:47:03,660
not ordinary matter that you find in the

1186
00:47:07,690 --> 00:47:05,460
sauce we don't we haven't detected it

1187
00:47:10,490 --> 00:47:07,700
yet we don't find it in the solar system

1188
00:47:14,569 --> 00:47:10,500
uh we don't know what it is

1189
00:47:16,190 --> 00:47:14,579
uh it's dark matter okay we we just gave

1190
00:47:18,589 --> 00:47:16,200
it a label

1191
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:18,599
so just again the lesson from this is

1192
00:47:26,750 --> 00:47:22,800
for 40 years this was ridicule until the

1193
00:47:28,130 --> 00:47:26,760
1970s and now everyone says yes of

1194
00:47:31,370 --> 00:47:28,140
course but we still don't know what it

1195
00:47:32,690 --> 00:47:31,380
is now I say here is the third part of

1196
00:47:35,210 --> 00:47:32,700
this story

1197
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:35,220
over the past decade we found the first

1198
00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:37,920
objects that came from outside the solar

1199
00:47:43,670 --> 00:47:40,400
system just like going to your backyard

1200
00:47:46,550 --> 00:47:43,680
and thinking oh yeah anything I find in

1201
00:47:49,250 --> 00:47:46,560
my backyard so far I found from my

1202
00:47:51,290 --> 00:47:49,260
backyard was rocks therefore if

1203
00:47:52,550 --> 00:47:51,300
something comes from the street it will

1204
00:47:54,770 --> 00:47:52,560
also be a rock

1205
00:47:57,410 --> 00:47:54,780
but then you find the beach ball you

1206
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:57,420
find a tennis ball you say no no no no

1207
00:48:01,430 --> 00:47:59,760
it's a rock of a type that we've never

1208
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:01,440
seen before

1209
00:48:06,109 --> 00:48:03,839
and my point is just be open-minded

1210
00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:06,119
maybe you have a neighbor maybe these

1211
00:48:12,770 --> 00:48:08,520
objects are different than rocks why is

1212
00:48:15,790 --> 00:48:12,780
that such a a a an extraordinary claim

1213
00:48:18,309 --> 00:48:15,800
to say that other

1214
00:48:21,770 --> 00:48:18,319
exoplanets may have developed

1215
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:21,780
intelligence the way Earth did and

1216
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:24,480
resulted in spaceship or or some

1217
00:48:28,790 --> 00:48:26,400
equipment being thrown into space that

1218
00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:28,800
may visit us why is that so extra Runner

1219
00:48:33,650 --> 00:48:31,680
so my colleagues say extraordinary

1220
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:33,660
claims require extraordinary evidence

1221
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:36,240
and I say in response and by the way

1222
00:48:40,970 --> 00:48:38,400
this is a quote of Carl Sagan from the

1223
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:40,980
70s I say that makes no sense because

1224
00:48:45,050 --> 00:48:42,960
it's a self-fulfilling prophecy if you

1225
00:48:47,210 --> 00:48:45,060
say we don't need to everything is rocks

1226
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:47,220
everything is natural that just the way

1227
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:49,440
that this nature astronomy review paper

1228
00:48:53,089 --> 00:48:51,359
said it must be natural period

1229
00:48:55,730 --> 00:48:53,099
explanation mark let's forget about it

1230
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:55,740
let's move on if you say that you don't

1231
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:57,920
look for evidence if you don't admit

1232
00:49:02,650 --> 00:49:01,440
that the emperor has no claws if you

1233
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:02,660
don't say that

1234
00:49:08,809 --> 00:49:05,760
then you don't even search you don't

1235
00:49:11,630 --> 00:49:08,819
check you say well it's a rock of some

1236
00:49:13,010 --> 00:49:11,640
type of a very unusual type forget about

1237
00:49:14,809 --> 00:49:13,020
it there are more important pressing

1238
00:49:17,329 --> 00:49:14,819
items like dark matter

1239
00:49:19,370 --> 00:49:17,339
but fundamentally it may be much more

1240
00:49:21,910 --> 00:49:19,380
important than dark matter because if we

1241
00:49:25,069 --> 00:49:21,920
find the dark matter is super symmetric

1242
00:49:27,410 --> 00:49:25,079
particles it will have zero impact on

1243
00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:27,420
our daily lives if we find that there is

1244
00:49:32,270 --> 00:49:29,640
a smarter kid on our block it will

1245
00:49:34,910 --> 00:49:32,280
change the future of humanity so I say

1246
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:34,920
how can you ignore that possibility and

1247
00:49:43,010 --> 00:49:38,640
the point is that you know we should be

1248
00:49:46,130 --> 00:49:43,020
guided by evidence that's the key to uh

1249
00:49:49,010 --> 00:49:46,140
being humble being modest be saying you

1250
00:49:51,230 --> 00:49:49,020
know we don't know the answers let's

1251
00:49:53,150 --> 00:49:51,240
just figure them out let's allow nature

1252
00:49:54,770 --> 00:49:53,160
to educate us that's something else

1253
00:49:56,329 --> 00:49:54,780
that's important that I don't think is

1254
00:49:57,710 --> 00:49:56,339
talked about much that when someone

1255
00:50:00,349 --> 00:49:57,720
dismisses something because it's

1256
00:50:01,910 --> 00:50:00,359
quanticore improbable it's not simply a

1257
00:50:03,890 --> 00:50:01,920
probabilistic argument there's also a

1258
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:03,900
value judgment there and the reason is

1259
00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:06,240
when I'm driving along a country road

1260
00:50:10,550 --> 00:50:09,119
and there's a hill I can't see the cars

1261
00:50:12,650 --> 00:50:10,560
that are coming up and let's say I've

1262
00:50:15,349 --> 00:50:12,660
passed 50 of them and there's no cars

1263
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:15,359
it's empty I still slow down and the top

1264
00:50:18,050 --> 00:50:16,800
of the hill even though it's improbable

1265
00:50:20,569 --> 00:50:18,060
there's another car because it's

1266
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:20,579
important that I don't hit someone or

1267
00:50:25,250 --> 00:50:23,280
that I don't get hit and so even if it's

1268
00:50:26,930 --> 00:50:25,260
improbable that it's life the importance

1269
00:50:28,730 --> 00:50:26,940
of it is so high that

1270
00:50:31,730 --> 00:50:28,740
that needs to be taken into account as

1271
00:50:34,910 --> 00:50:31,740
well exactly exactly that was the Pascal

1272
00:50:37,550 --> 00:50:34,920
bless Pascal's argument why we should

1273
00:50:40,250 --> 00:50:37,560
discuss the possibility of God because

1274
00:50:42,890 --> 00:50:40,260
the implications are so great

1275
00:50:45,530 --> 00:50:42,900
um and my point in response to Carl

1276
00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:45,540
Sagan's quote is that extraordinary

1277
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:48,319
evidence requires extraordinary funding

1278
00:50:52,849 --> 00:50:51,359
and you know we invested billions of

1279
00:50:56,030 --> 00:50:52,859
dollars in the search for Dark Matter

1280
00:50:58,130 --> 00:50:56,040
over the past several decades the most

1281
00:51:00,410 --> 00:50:58,140
the most recent attempt was using the

1282
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:00,420
Large Hadron Collider that cost 10

1283
00:51:05,690 --> 00:51:03,359
billion dollars to find the lightest

1284
00:51:07,849 --> 00:51:05,700
supersymmetric particle as a candidate

1285
00:51:09,530 --> 00:51:07,859
for the dark matter and people said you

1286
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:09,540
know it will be found it's around the

1287
00:51:14,990 --> 00:51:12,480
corner string theory was established on

1288
00:51:16,970 --> 00:51:15,000
the foundation of supersymmetry and

1289
00:51:18,530 --> 00:51:16,980
there are some very natural set of

1290
00:51:21,290 --> 00:51:18,540
parameters for supersymmetry that

1291
00:51:23,930 --> 00:51:21,300
everyone believed in and awards were

1292
00:51:25,790 --> 00:51:23,940
given to people who suggested that and

1293
00:51:27,650 --> 00:51:25,800
so forth and then the Large Hadron

1294
00:51:31,329 --> 00:51:27,660
Collider at the cost of 10 billion

1295
00:51:34,370 --> 00:51:31,339
dollars didn't find it okay there is no

1296
00:51:36,710 --> 00:51:34,380
uh supersymmetry at the natural set of

1297
00:51:39,410 --> 00:51:36,720
parameters there was no Dark Matter

1298
00:51:43,069 --> 00:51:39,420
particle that we discovered so far okay

1299
00:51:45,170 --> 00:51:43,079
and I so I say you know if we were to

1300
00:51:48,770 --> 00:51:45,180
invest billions of dollars in the search

1301
00:51:52,130 --> 00:51:48,780
for equipment from other civilizations

1302
00:51:55,970 --> 00:51:52,140
in outer space and we would spend

1303
00:51:57,890 --> 00:51:55,980
billions of dollars for decades and not

1304
00:52:00,349 --> 00:51:57,900
find anything

1305
00:52:04,370 --> 00:52:00,359
then we would be exactly the same point

1306
00:52:06,490 --> 00:52:04,380
as dark matter searches are right now so

1307
00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:06,500
why didn't anyone say

1308
00:52:12,170 --> 00:52:09,599
supersymmetry is an extraordinary claim

1309
00:52:13,069 --> 00:52:12,180
there is no extraordinary evidence for

1310
00:52:15,230 --> 00:52:13,079
it

1311
00:52:18,049 --> 00:52:15,240
therefore we should not fund the search

1312
00:52:20,030 --> 00:52:18,059
why didn't anyone no it's legitimate to

1313
00:52:22,670 --> 00:52:20,040
search for supersonic because there was

1314
00:52:25,250 --> 00:52:22,680
a community that agreed that it's a good

1315
00:52:27,410 --> 00:52:25,260
idea okay so we invested the billions of

1316
00:52:29,809 --> 00:52:27,420
dollars we didn't find it does anyone

1317
00:52:31,849 --> 00:52:29,819
take responsibility for that no people

1318
00:52:35,450 --> 00:52:31,859
say well that's the nature of science

1319
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:35,460
you imagine something you don't find it

1320
00:52:42,770 --> 00:52:39,839
so now why do we block funding

1321
00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:42,780
for something that we as a civilization

1322
00:52:47,809 --> 00:52:44,880
already did in terms of sending

1323
00:52:49,970 --> 00:52:47,819
equipment uh out of the solar system why

1324
00:52:53,030 --> 00:52:49,980
do we block funding for the search for

1325
00:52:55,970 --> 00:52:53,040
something similar that was initiated by

1326
00:52:59,569 --> 00:52:55,980
a duplicate of ourselves because you

1327
00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:59,579
know the the dice was rolled tens of

1328
00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:01,200
billions of times in the Milky Way

1329
00:53:06,170 --> 00:53:03,660
galaxy the dice of intelligence we know

1330
00:53:08,270 --> 00:53:06,180
that somewhere between a few percent to

1331
00:53:10,970 --> 00:53:08,280
a hundred percent of all the sun-like

1332
00:53:13,130 --> 00:53:10,980
stars have a planet the size of the

1333
00:53:14,690 --> 00:53:13,140
Earth roughly the same separation that's

1334
00:53:17,630 --> 00:53:14,700
from the Kepler satellite we already

1335
00:53:19,549 --> 00:53:17,640
know that so what we find in the solar

1336
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:19,559
system is not an extremely rare

1337
00:53:24,470 --> 00:53:21,839
situation and I say okay you roll the

1338
00:53:26,390 --> 00:53:24,480
dice of intelligence so many times tens

1339
00:53:28,670 --> 00:53:26,400
of business it's quite possible and most

1340
00:53:31,010 --> 00:53:28,680
stars form billions of years before the

1341
00:53:33,890 --> 00:53:31,020
sun we should allow for this possibility

1342
00:53:37,609 --> 00:53:33,900
to me it doesn't sound more far-fetched

1343
00:53:39,410 --> 00:53:37,619
or more speculative than the lightest

1344
00:53:42,589 --> 00:53:39,420
supersymmetric particle being the

1345
00:53:45,230 --> 00:53:42,599
darkness better okay but on that front

1346
00:53:46,790 --> 00:53:45,240
we invested billions of dollars in the

1347
00:53:49,069 --> 00:53:46,800
search for the lightest supersymmetric

1348
00:53:52,370 --> 00:53:49,079
part on the front of searching for what

1349
00:53:54,890 --> 00:53:52,380
we are doing from another kid on our

1350
00:53:57,410 --> 00:53:54,900
Cosmic block we didn't spend anything

1351
00:53:59,390 --> 00:53:57,420
from federal funding so the Galileo

1352
00:54:01,430 --> 00:53:59,400
project is funded by private donations

1353
00:54:03,950 --> 00:54:01,440
and we haven't really engaged

1354
00:54:07,690 --> 00:54:03,960
scientifically in that search so I say

1355
00:54:10,490 --> 00:54:07,700
there is a mismatch between the current

1356
00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:10,500
academic approach to this subject and

1357
00:54:16,670 --> 00:54:14,160
moreover you may say oh um scientists

1358
00:54:18,890 --> 00:54:16,680
are conservative I say how it how is

1359
00:54:20,329 --> 00:54:18,900
that possible to imagine that scientists

1360
00:54:21,530 --> 00:54:20,339
are conservative because you have a

1361
00:54:24,650 --> 00:54:21,540
whole community of theoretical

1362
00:54:27,230 --> 00:54:24,660
physicists that for four decades are

1363
00:54:31,010 --> 00:54:27,240
working on extra dimensions

1364
00:54:33,309 --> 00:54:31,020
on the Multiverse on string theory ideas

1365
00:54:36,650 --> 00:54:33,319
that have no

1366
00:54:39,650 --> 00:54:36,660
foundation in experimental verification

1367
00:54:42,049 --> 00:54:39,660
there is no evidence for those ideas yet

1368
00:54:45,109 --> 00:54:42,059
they are part of the mainstream

1369
00:54:47,870 --> 00:54:45,119
and on the other hand we have some

1370
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:47,880
evidence that we exist as an intelligent

1371
00:54:53,089 --> 00:54:50,400
species we have evidence that we send

1372
00:54:55,790 --> 00:54:53,099
out equipment that will exit the solar

1373
00:54:57,829 --> 00:54:55,800
system we have evidence that a planet

1374
00:55:00,410 --> 00:54:57,839
like the Earth around the star like the

1375
00:55:03,109 --> 00:55:00,420
sun is very common you know it's

1376
00:55:05,089 --> 00:55:03,119
that are billions if not tens of

1377
00:55:06,890 --> 00:55:05,099
billions of such planets in the Milky

1378
00:55:09,230 --> 00:55:06,900
Way galaxy alone

1379
00:55:10,849 --> 00:55:09,240
and many of these stars from billions of

1380
00:55:15,950 --> 00:55:10,859
years before the sun

1381
00:55:18,410 --> 00:55:15,960
so how can we even argue that this is a

1382
00:55:20,809 --> 00:55:18,420
very speculative idea to imagine that we

1383
00:55:23,390 --> 00:55:20,819
are not that Albert Einstein was not the

1384
00:55:25,549 --> 00:55:23,400
smartest scientist that ever existed

1385
00:55:27,530 --> 00:55:25,559
since the big bang I mean that makes no

1386
00:55:29,650 --> 00:55:27,540
sense it's very likely that there was a

1387
00:55:33,470 --> 00:55:29,660
scientist smarter than Albert Einstein

1388
00:55:35,690 --> 00:55:33,480
that lived a billion years ago on an

1389
00:55:38,089 --> 00:55:35,700
exoplanet and the civilization who

1390
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:38,099
benefited from the discoveries of that

1391
00:55:43,970 --> 00:55:41,760
scientist may have sent probes that fill

1392
00:55:46,730 --> 00:55:43,980
up the Milky Way galaxy

1393
00:55:48,890 --> 00:55:46,740
and may populate the habitable zones of

1394
00:55:50,809 --> 00:55:48,900
many stars by now furthermore there's

1395
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:50,819
the simulation hypothesis which

1396
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:52,319
presupposes something like another

1397
00:55:56,030 --> 00:55:54,480
intelligent life why is it that certain

1398
00:55:58,069 --> 00:55:56,040
mainstream ideas like you mentioned

1399
00:56:00,170 --> 00:55:58,079
extra dimensions and many worlds and

1400
00:56:01,790 --> 00:56:00,180
even simulation and so on is the

1401
00:56:03,770 --> 00:56:01,800
simulation is more philosophical than it

1402
00:56:05,390 --> 00:56:03,780
is physics-based but why is it that

1403
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:05,400
these ideas are taken more seriously

1404
00:56:09,470 --> 00:56:07,680
however the idea is that there's

1405
00:56:11,690 --> 00:56:09,480
extraterrestrial intelligent life that

1406
00:56:13,910 --> 00:56:11,700
has visited us whether or not it exists

1407
00:56:16,250 --> 00:56:13,920
I think main many or perhaps most

1408
00:56:18,290 --> 00:56:16,260
scientists would say yes but whether or

1409
00:56:19,609 --> 00:56:18,300
not they've visited us or continue to

1410
00:56:21,650 --> 00:56:19,619
visit us to this day is something

1411
00:56:22,670 --> 00:56:21,660
different why do you think that is why

1412
00:56:24,410 --> 00:56:22,680
do you think that they don't like that

1413
00:56:27,170 --> 00:56:24,420
idea it's clearly because there's a

1414
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:27,180
stigma so why why is that stigma there

1415
00:56:35,630 --> 00:56:31,760
yeah it's this the answer is very simple

1416
00:56:36,530 --> 00:56:35,640
humans enjoy ideas that flatter their

1417
00:56:40,670 --> 00:56:36,540
ego

1418
00:56:42,290 --> 00:56:40,680
okay so if the idea says we are at the

1419
00:56:44,990 --> 00:56:42,300
center of the universe

1420
00:56:47,329 --> 00:56:45,000
that's great we can adapt it for a

1421
00:56:48,530 --> 00:56:47,339
thousand years we can put Galileo in

1422
00:56:51,589 --> 00:56:48,540
house arrest

1423
00:56:54,170 --> 00:56:51,599
and refuse to look at the evidence why

1424
00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:54,180
because it flatters our ego to think

1425
00:56:56,470 --> 00:56:55,440
that we are at the center of the

1426
00:56:59,470 --> 00:56:56,480
universe

1427
00:57:03,530 --> 00:56:59,480
that God

1428
00:57:04,790 --> 00:57:03,540
considers US Special unique and

1429
00:57:07,010 --> 00:57:04,800
privileged

1430
00:57:09,349 --> 00:57:07,020
okay so then

1431
00:57:12,109 --> 00:57:09,359
you find evidence after a while even

1432
00:57:13,490 --> 00:57:12,119
though you lock Galileo eventually it

1433
00:57:15,349 --> 00:57:13,500
turns out that we are not at the center

1434
00:57:18,829 --> 00:57:15,359
of the universe eventually it turns out

1435
00:57:19,790 --> 00:57:18,839
that we came to the cosmic stage just at

1436
00:57:23,630 --> 00:57:19,800
the end

1437
00:57:25,490 --> 00:57:23,640
so if you come to a play you know 13.8

1438
00:57:27,829 --> 00:57:25,500
billion years after the cosmic Place

1439
00:57:29,930 --> 00:57:27,839
started just at the end and you are not

1440
00:57:34,430 --> 00:57:29,940
at the center of the stage then guess

1441
00:57:37,250 --> 00:57:34,440
what you are not a primary actor okay

1442
00:57:40,130 --> 00:57:37,260
and you better search for other actors

1443
00:57:43,250 --> 00:57:40,140
to tell you what the play is about okay

1444
00:57:46,130 --> 00:57:43,260
but that goes against the human ego

1445
00:57:49,250 --> 00:57:46,140
that's not flattering so what do you do

1446
00:57:52,549 --> 00:57:49,260
you say okay I'm not at the center of

1447
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:52,559
the play but there are no other actors

1448
00:57:55,490 --> 00:57:54,480
therefore I am important despite

1449
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:55,500
everything

1450
00:58:01,130 --> 00:57:58,559
and I am the smartest now I can

1451
00:58:03,170 --> 00:58:01,140
understand that approach because when my

1452
00:58:05,329 --> 00:58:03,180
daughters were young they were at home

1453
00:58:08,510 --> 00:58:05,339
and they thought that they are the

1454
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:08,520
smartest in the world until we took them

1455
00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:11,280
to the kindergarten and on the first day

1456
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:13,440
in the kindergarten

1457
00:58:19,069 --> 00:58:16,079
they had a psychological shock to

1458
00:58:22,130 --> 00:58:19,079
realize that there is a smarter kid in

1459
00:58:24,049 --> 00:58:22,140
their neighborhood now I say how can you

1460
00:58:27,049 --> 00:58:24,059
avoid going to the kindergarten very

1461
00:58:29,569 --> 00:58:27,059
easily you just ridicule on social media

1462
00:58:32,510 --> 00:58:29,579
any possible intriguing evidence that

1463
00:58:34,670 --> 00:58:32,520
that's not the case the way the way the

1464
00:58:37,309 --> 00:58:34,680
philosophers behaved at the time of

1465
00:58:39,230 --> 00:58:37,319
Galileo you hope that nobody else will

1466
00:58:41,329 --> 00:58:39,240
pay attention to Galileo why because you

1467
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:41,339
put him in a house arrest so that nobody

1468
00:58:44,690 --> 00:58:43,200
can listen you don't look through the

1469
00:58:46,490 --> 00:58:44,700
telescope and you suppress the

1470
00:58:48,349 --> 00:58:46,500
information as much as you can and you

1471
00:58:51,049 --> 00:58:48,359
say there is nothing there

1472
00:58:53,569 --> 00:58:51,059
forget about it exclamation mark period

1473
00:58:55,010 --> 00:58:53,579
forget about it you say that you put him

1474
00:58:58,670 --> 00:58:55,020
in house arrest or nobody would listen

1475
00:59:00,530 --> 00:58:58,680
you think that would cure the threat to

1476
00:59:02,569 --> 00:59:00,540
your ego but it doesn't because

1477
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:02,579
eventually someone else finds the

1478
00:59:08,150 --> 00:59:06,000
evidence and reality is whatever it is

1479
00:59:10,010 --> 00:59:08,160
if you were to ask those philosophers to

1480
00:59:12,170 --> 00:59:10,020
design a space mission that would reach

1481
00:59:13,970 --> 00:59:12,180
Mars they would never get to their

1482
00:59:16,190 --> 00:59:13,980
destination because they thought that

1483
00:59:18,950 --> 00:59:16,200
Mars moves around the Earth but reality

1484
00:59:21,170 --> 00:59:18,960
is not like that you know you can launch

1485
00:59:22,549 --> 00:59:21,180
a spacecraft and it will never reach a

1486
00:59:26,450 --> 00:59:22,559
destination if you have the wrong ideas

1487
00:59:28,970 --> 00:59:26,460
so by today's standards what Galileo

1488
00:59:31,130 --> 00:59:28,980
said was trivial because you can look at

1489
00:59:33,410 --> 00:59:31,140
the Earth from a distance you can go to

1490
00:59:36,170 --> 00:59:33,420
Mars and you realize Galileo was right

1491
00:59:39,410 --> 00:59:36,180
okay there is no way this philosophers

1492
00:59:41,329 --> 00:59:39,420
were right you know that okay but for a

1493
00:59:44,690 --> 00:59:41,339
while they were able to dominate public

1494
00:59:48,289 --> 00:59:44,700
opinion to be popular and to maintain

1495
00:59:51,530 --> 00:59:48,299
their grip on the false notion of

1496
00:59:54,829 --> 00:59:51,540
reality so that's that's a tendency

1497
00:59:58,370 --> 00:59:54,839
that's a the ability of humans to

1498
01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:58,380
basically go on Twitter and make a lot

1499
01:00:03,890 --> 01:00:01,200
of noise about something that they don't

1500
01:00:05,930 --> 01:00:03,900
like now it may work in politics you

1501
01:00:08,990 --> 01:00:05,940
know in politics things are you know you

1502
01:00:10,609 --> 01:00:09,000
don't have hard facts sometimes so you

1503
01:00:13,130 --> 01:00:10,619
can argue whatever you want you can get

1504
01:00:16,370 --> 01:00:13,140
a lot of likes and you feel good about

1505
01:00:18,589 --> 01:00:16,380
yourself but in science what Galileo

1506
01:00:20,270 --> 01:00:18,599
taught us is if you want to adapt to

1507
01:00:22,970 --> 01:00:20,280
reality you better pay attention to

1508
01:00:24,650 --> 01:00:22,980
evidence so I say when there is

1509
01:00:28,250 --> 01:00:24,660
something intriguing that doesn't line

1510
01:00:29,690 --> 01:00:28,260
up with what you expected your duty as a

1511
01:00:32,329 --> 01:00:29,700
scientist is to collect more evidence

1512
01:00:34,910 --> 01:00:32,339
your duty is to say well maybe the

1513
01:00:37,370 --> 01:00:34,920
emperor has no clothes maybe what we

1514
01:00:40,490 --> 01:00:37,380
think is incorrect and the only way to

1515
01:00:41,870 --> 01:00:40,500
find out is to admit that possibility to

1516
01:00:44,329 --> 01:00:41,880
admit the possibility that the Dark

1517
01:00:46,970 --> 01:00:44,339
Matter may not be weekly interacting

1518
01:00:48,470 --> 01:00:46,980
massive particle because if you do fund

1519
01:00:50,990 --> 01:00:48,480
the Large Hadron Collider and it doesn't

1520
01:00:52,910 --> 01:00:51,000
find it you know that your previous

1521
01:00:55,250 --> 01:00:52,920
notion was incorrect that's the way

1522
01:00:57,650 --> 01:00:55,260
science makes progress it checks

1523
01:01:00,049 --> 01:00:57,660
possibilities by looking for evidence

1524
01:01:02,270 --> 01:01:00,059
and if you on the other hand say you

1525
01:01:04,370 --> 01:01:02,280
know the answer in advance you may be

1526
01:01:05,870 --> 01:01:04,380
just like those philosophers just to

1527
01:01:08,930 --> 01:01:05,880
give you an example this experience

1528
01:01:11,750 --> 01:01:08,940
addition to Papua New Guinea gained a

1529
01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:11,760
lot of traction recently because the NBC

1530
01:01:18,049 --> 01:01:14,240
had a beautiful video about it

1531
01:01:19,849 --> 01:01:18,059
and the NPR reported about it

1532
01:01:22,970 --> 01:01:19,859
and then

1533
01:01:25,010 --> 01:01:22,980
as soon as the NPR story broke out just

1534
01:01:29,089 --> 01:01:25,020
yesterday it broke out for the second

1535
01:01:33,289 --> 01:01:29,099
time some people had negative things

1536
01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:33,299
they injected poison into the discussion

1537
01:01:38,690 --> 01:01:36,000
by saying some people yeah some people

1538
01:01:42,109 --> 01:01:38,700
and many of them are not practicing

1539
01:01:45,170 --> 01:01:42,119
astronomers and so I I don't want even

1540
01:01:47,089 --> 01:01:45,180
to get into the issue of what their

1541
01:01:50,870 --> 01:01:47,099
qualifications are

1542
01:01:53,809 --> 01:01:50,880
uh but the point of the matter is

1543
01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:53,819
you know this Expedition is funded from

1544
01:01:59,210 --> 01:01:56,640
donations it's done by a team of

1545
01:02:01,309 --> 01:01:59,220
scientists and all we are doing is going

1546
01:02:03,470 --> 01:02:01,319
to a place where a meteor disintegrated

1547
01:02:05,829 --> 01:02:03,480
and trying to check what the fragments

1548
01:02:09,530 --> 01:02:05,839
are made of like why would that bother

1549
01:02:12,470 --> 01:02:09,540
anyone why would anyone resist that

1550
01:02:14,390 --> 01:02:12,480
other than the Instinct that the

1551
01:02:16,609 --> 01:02:14,400
philosophers had at the time of Galileo

1552
01:02:18,890 --> 01:02:16,619
what I'm trying to say is four centuries

1553
01:02:20,329 --> 01:02:18,900
later we still see the same phenomenon

1554
01:02:23,049 --> 01:02:20,339
where people

1555
01:02:26,690 --> 01:02:23,059
with very strong conviction

1556
01:02:29,690 --> 01:02:26,700
oppose the Gathering of evidence and

1557
01:02:32,450 --> 01:02:29,700
data and why am are we going to Papua

1558
01:02:34,609 --> 01:02:32,460
New Guinea why because this object was

1559
01:02:36,470 --> 01:02:34,619
tougher than iron there is evidence for

1560
01:02:39,049 --> 01:02:36,480
that because the government measured the

1561
01:02:40,609 --> 01:02:39,059
properties of the meteor and it looks

1562
01:02:42,710 --> 01:02:40,619
like it came from outside the solar

1563
01:02:45,410 --> 01:02:42,720
system so it was an outlier that's all

1564
01:02:48,829 --> 01:02:45,420
so it's all guided you know I didn't

1565
01:02:51,349 --> 01:02:48,839
dream this object at night it was not a

1566
01:02:53,569 --> 01:02:51,359
subject of a science fiction story it

1567
01:02:56,089 --> 01:02:53,579
was evidence the government provided

1568
01:02:57,650 --> 01:02:56,099
that allows you using the laws of

1569
01:02:59,930 --> 01:02:57,660
physics to figure out that this is an

1570
01:03:02,390 --> 01:02:59,940
outlier okay that came from outside the

1571
01:03:04,849 --> 01:03:02,400
source that's all it motivates us to

1572
01:03:07,609 --> 01:03:04,859
examine what its composition is so why

1573
01:03:09,349 --> 01:03:07,619
wouldn't everyone cheer up and say great

1574
01:03:11,450 --> 01:03:09,359
let's figure out what this object is

1575
01:03:14,510 --> 01:03:11,460
let's find more evidence why would it

1576
01:03:16,730 --> 01:03:14,520
bother people that this is happening and

1577
01:03:19,250 --> 01:03:16,740
the only way I can see it is first

1578
01:03:21,950 --> 01:03:19,260
jealousy that this project gets

1579
01:03:24,410 --> 01:03:21,960
attention Okay so whenever there is a

1580
01:03:27,349 --> 01:03:24,420
flower blooming above the grass level

1581
01:03:28,970 --> 01:03:27,359
people try to step on the flower because

1582
01:03:31,309 --> 01:03:28,980
it bothers them that there is something

1583
01:03:34,910 --> 01:03:31,319
different Rising above the grass level

1584
01:03:37,010 --> 01:03:34,920
they would rather see only grass okay so

1585
01:03:38,930 --> 01:03:37,020
that's one tendency that out of jealousy

1586
01:03:40,730 --> 01:03:38,940
they don't like the fact that there is a

1587
01:03:43,130 --> 01:03:40,740
flower blooming above the grass level

1588
01:03:45,650 --> 01:03:43,140
okay so whenever there is a flower they

1589
01:03:47,930 --> 01:03:45,660
would step on it so that's a reason for

1590
01:03:51,710 --> 01:03:47,940
toxicity you know like in social media

1591
01:03:54,589 --> 01:03:51,720
but as second thing is Prejudice and we

1592
01:03:57,109 --> 01:03:54,599
don't you know people find it uh

1593
01:03:59,089 --> 01:03:57,119
offending offensive to consider the

1594
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:59,099
possibility that we are not the smartest

1595
01:04:03,589 --> 01:04:01,200
kid on the cosmic block it really

1596
01:04:09,109 --> 01:04:03,599
bothers me because you know just imagine

1597
01:04:12,950 --> 01:04:09,119
that imagine that we see the 100th

1598
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:12,960
version of the iPhone coming from space

1599
01:04:17,990 --> 01:04:14,880
and it does magic

1600
01:04:19,970 --> 01:04:18,000
sort of like a cave dweller finding a

1601
01:04:22,130 --> 01:04:19,980
cell phone or going to New York City and

1602
01:04:24,589 --> 01:04:22,140
seeing all the gadgets there the cave

1603
01:04:27,109 --> 01:04:24,599
dweller would never be able to reverse

1604
01:04:29,870 --> 01:04:27,119
engineer these things it would look like

1605
01:04:32,089 --> 01:04:29,880
magic but it would be a blow to the ego

1606
01:04:35,750 --> 01:04:32,099
of the cave dweller who is used to

1607
01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:35,760
hunting animals or playing with rocks so

1608
01:04:40,130 --> 01:04:38,400
obviously if the cave Guerrera finds a

1609
01:04:41,990 --> 01:04:40,140
cell phone the first impression would be

1610
01:04:44,349 --> 01:04:42,000
oh it's a rock of a type that I've never

1611
01:04:46,490 --> 01:04:44,359
seen before

1612
01:04:48,170 --> 01:04:46,500
is a rock of a type that we've never

1613
01:04:50,270 --> 01:04:48,180
seen so that's the first impression

1614
01:04:51,950 --> 01:04:50,280
because you're used to a vocabulary that

1615
01:04:54,049 --> 01:04:51,960
you know you play with rocks all your

1616
01:04:55,730 --> 01:04:54,059
life this is a rock of a type that I've

1617
01:04:57,650 --> 01:04:55,740
never seen before but then you start

1618
01:05:00,049 --> 01:04:57,660
realizing that this gadget does things

1619
01:05:01,849 --> 01:05:00,059
that a rock doesn't like if you press a

1620
01:05:03,829 --> 01:05:01,859
button it records your voice or records

1621
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:03,839
your image so then it will change your

1622
01:05:08,510 --> 01:05:05,520
perception and eventually you would

1623
01:05:10,549 --> 01:05:08,520
realize there is Magic here that

1624
01:05:12,890 --> 01:05:10,559
something that goes beyond what I was

1625
01:05:15,650 --> 01:05:12,900
able to accomplish in my life of hunting

1626
01:05:17,870 --> 01:05:15,660
and Gathering okay so the cape do I

1627
01:05:19,970 --> 01:05:17,880
don't realize that and for us the way to

1628
01:05:22,730 --> 01:05:19,980
realize it is that we will figure out

1629
01:05:25,130 --> 01:05:22,740
that something is not natural

1630
01:05:26,950 --> 01:05:25,140
doesn't look like the compositions of a

1631
01:05:29,870 --> 01:05:26,960
natural object

1632
01:05:33,170 --> 01:05:29,880
or that it behaves in ways that go

1633
01:05:35,329 --> 01:05:33,180
beyond our Technologies okay so I say we

1634
01:05:39,170 --> 01:05:35,339
can follow the same learning

1635
01:05:42,650 --> 01:05:39,180
exercise we can by getting more evidence

1636
01:05:44,270 --> 01:05:42,660
we can get out of our comfort zone but

1637
01:05:45,950 --> 01:05:44,280
most people prefer to stay in their

1638
01:05:48,109 --> 01:05:45,960
comfort zone just like the philosophers

1639
01:05:50,450 --> 01:05:48,119
prefer to stay in their comfort zone of

1640
01:05:52,849 --> 01:05:50,460
us being at the center of the world

1641
01:05:54,530 --> 01:05:52,859
I see those as the same the first one

1642
01:05:56,510 --> 01:05:54,540
which is the flower that stands above

1643
01:05:58,010 --> 01:05:56,520
the grass and wanting to stomp it out

1644
01:06:01,250 --> 01:05:58,020
out of jealousy and then the second one

1645
01:06:03,770 --> 01:06:01,260
out of wanting to be the most brightest

1646
01:06:06,049 --> 01:06:03,780
kid on the Block because both point out

1647
01:06:08,150 --> 01:06:06,059
one's own insufficiencies as far as one

1648
01:06:10,670 --> 01:06:08,160
thinks that it's all it's almost a view

1649
01:06:12,049 --> 01:06:10,680
of oneself if I was to correct or if one

1650
01:06:14,890 --> 01:06:12,059
was to correct although I'm speaking to

1651
01:06:17,150 --> 01:06:14,900
myself my own

1652
01:06:19,609 --> 01:06:17,160
insecurities and my own lowly view of

1653
01:06:21,770 --> 01:06:19,619
myself then I wouldn't be so

1654
01:06:24,470 --> 01:06:21,780
quick to criticize others and also maybe

1655
01:06:26,029 --> 01:06:24,480
see that something else being

1656
01:06:28,670 --> 01:06:26,039
more

1657
01:06:30,410 --> 01:06:28,680
valuable means that I can use that as an

1658
01:06:32,690 --> 01:06:30,420
aim so I can see it as a positive rather

1659
01:06:34,730 --> 01:06:32,700
than a a detriment that it doesn't shine

1660
01:06:36,109 --> 01:06:34,740
such a Negative light on me or sign no

1661
01:06:39,049 --> 01:06:36,119
light because all the spotlight is

1662
01:06:40,970 --> 01:06:39,059
elsewhere yeah there is a there is a

1663
01:06:43,490 --> 01:06:40,980
simple remedy to that and let me just

1664
01:06:45,529 --> 01:06:43,500
mention what is the solution the

1665
01:06:47,809 --> 01:06:45,539
solution is to look at kids

1666
01:06:49,910 --> 01:06:47,819
because kids don't know much about the

1667
01:06:52,190 --> 01:06:49,920
world okay so they learn from experience

1668
01:06:53,210 --> 01:06:52,200
so if they see an object they go and

1669
01:06:56,270 --> 01:06:53,220
check it

1670
01:06:58,370 --> 01:06:56,280
and an adult would sit and say oh I know

1671
01:07:01,010 --> 01:06:58,380
what this object is forget about but a

1672
01:07:04,849 --> 01:07:01,020
kid would go there and a kid often take

1673
01:07:06,970 --> 01:07:04,859
takes risks in this learning process you

1674
01:07:09,770 --> 01:07:06,980
know because they are not doing any

1675
01:07:12,230 --> 01:07:09,780
calculations about what the risk might

1676
01:07:14,510 --> 01:07:12,240
involve and what kind of danger might be

1677
01:07:16,309 --> 01:07:14,520
there and so forth so they they are much

1678
01:07:18,049 --> 01:07:16,319
more Innovative in the way they explore

1679
01:07:20,029 --> 01:07:18,059
the world they go to the object and

1680
01:07:23,450 --> 01:07:20,039
touch it and they move it around and

1681
01:07:25,250 --> 01:07:23,460
they play with it and you know the

1682
01:07:26,809 --> 01:07:25,260
advantage of this approach is that you

1683
01:07:29,569 --> 01:07:26,819
may discover something that you didn't

1684
01:07:31,730 --> 01:07:29,579
expect whereas if you think that you are

1685
01:07:33,349 --> 01:07:31,740
the expert that you know everything that

1686
01:07:37,309 --> 01:07:33,359
you will find based on your past

1687
01:07:40,190 --> 01:07:37,319
knowledge and if you pretend to have uh

1688
01:07:42,529 --> 01:07:40,200
the image of an adult you know uh where

1689
01:07:45,109 --> 01:07:42,539
you you know everything and you you

1690
01:07:48,529 --> 01:07:45,119
never show weaknesses as being

1691
01:07:51,650 --> 01:07:48,539
unfamiliar with something then you lose

1692
01:07:54,349 --> 01:07:51,660
the the edge of finding new things okay

1693
01:07:56,930 --> 01:07:54,359
discovering new things so the remedy to

1694
01:07:59,450 --> 01:07:56,940
the problems we discussed before is to

1695
01:08:01,609 --> 01:07:59,460
behave more like kids you know when I

1696
01:08:04,370 --> 01:08:01,619
see adults very often I I try to figure

1697
01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:04,380
out how what is the kid behind this

1698
01:08:09,109 --> 01:08:07,200
adult because we all pretend to be much

1699
01:08:11,569 --> 01:08:09,119
more than we actually are and

1700
01:08:13,250 --> 01:08:11,579
fundamentally you know if you look at

1701
01:08:15,529 --> 01:08:13,260
what we know and what we don't know

1702
01:08:18,010 --> 01:08:15,539
about the universe we are still like

1703
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:18,020
classmates in the first day of class

1704
01:08:23,749 --> 01:08:20,400
there is so much we don't know you know

1705
01:08:26,689 --> 01:08:23,759
so many scientists got Awards just for

1706
01:08:29,090 --> 01:08:26,699
what you may regard as accounting you

1707
01:08:30,950 --> 01:08:29,100
know they just account for how much dark

1708
01:08:32,870 --> 01:08:30,960
matter there is in the universe how much

1709
01:08:34,849 --> 01:08:32,880
dark energy there is in the universe but

1710
01:08:37,309 --> 01:08:34,859
we still don't know what it is you're

1711
01:08:40,610 --> 01:08:37,319
just saying okay there is you know a

1712
01:08:43,010 --> 01:08:40,620
certain 25 percent uh of the cosmic Mass

1713
01:08:47,450 --> 01:08:43,020
budget is dark matter five percent is

1714
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:47,460
ordinary matter 70 is dark dark energy

1715
01:08:51,709 --> 01:08:49,920
okay it sounds very impressive and a lot

1716
01:08:54,890 --> 01:08:51,719
of awards and prices are given to the

1717
01:08:57,410 --> 01:08:54,900
people who pinpoint the exact uh

1718
01:08:59,809 --> 01:08:57,420
accounting but we still don't know the

1719
01:09:02,570 --> 01:08:59,819
substance okay so there is so much we

1720
01:09:05,630 --> 01:09:02,580
don't know and we should be humble it's

1721
01:09:08,209 --> 01:09:05,640
a sense of humility you see uh the

1722
01:09:10,550 --> 01:09:08,219
exploration of the unknown is just like

1723
01:09:12,829 --> 01:09:10,560
spirituality you know you are exploring

1724
01:09:14,269 --> 01:09:12,839
something bigger than you so you should

1725
01:09:16,789 --> 01:09:14,279
not put yourself

1726
01:09:19,669 --> 01:09:16,799
up front that's what our ego wants to do

1727
01:09:23,570 --> 01:09:19,679
to put yourself as the center point but

1728
01:09:25,970 --> 01:09:23,580
if you know that you're in a a learning

1729
01:09:27,709 --> 01:09:25,980
experience like a kid if you just say I

1730
01:09:29,870 --> 01:09:27,719
don't know much I just want to figure it

1731
01:09:32,390 --> 01:09:29,880
out if that is the attitude rather than

1732
01:09:36,050 --> 01:09:32,400
say I know a lot and I want to portray

1733
01:09:38,930 --> 01:09:36,060
an image so that I will get more uh

1734
01:09:41,510 --> 01:09:38,940
honors and awards and more recognition

1735
01:09:43,490 --> 01:09:41,520
and so forth the way adults do their

1736
01:09:44,809 --> 01:09:43,500
calculations they portray an image that

1737
01:09:47,150 --> 01:09:44,819
they know much more than they actually

1738
01:09:49,010 --> 01:09:47,160
know if you do that then you are missing

1739
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:49,020
the opportunity of discovering the truth

1740
01:09:54,229 --> 01:09:52,080
and a kid on the other hand admits you

1741
01:09:56,750 --> 01:09:54,239
know the kid doesn't know much and

1742
01:09:58,970 --> 01:09:56,760
therefore you know the kid takes risks

1743
01:10:01,790 --> 01:09:58,980
that the kid admits when things are not

1744
01:10:06,010 --> 01:10:01,800
clear so if we adapt that approach to

1745
01:10:08,630 --> 01:10:06,020
doing science I think there is the the

1746
01:10:10,669 --> 01:10:08,640
rate by which we make discoveries will

1747
01:10:13,430 --> 01:10:10,679
be accelerated and there is a simple

1748
01:10:14,930 --> 01:10:13,440
reason for that that the intellectual

1749
01:10:17,510 --> 01:10:14,940
climate will not be be about

1750
01:10:19,669 --> 01:10:17,520
demonstrating how smart you are but will

1751
01:10:22,729 --> 01:10:19,679
be about demonstrating what

1752
01:10:25,370 --> 01:10:22,739
what we learn you know and and and it's

1753
01:10:28,010 --> 01:10:25,380
a different task because you can

1754
01:10:29,510 --> 01:10:28,020
demonstrate that you are smart by asking

1755
01:10:32,450 --> 01:10:29,520
a question of

1756
01:10:34,370 --> 01:10:32,460
how many angels can dance on the tip of

1757
01:10:36,229 --> 01:10:34,380
a pin okay that sounds like a

1758
01:10:38,810 --> 01:10:36,239
fascinating question we don't know if

1759
01:10:40,430 --> 01:10:38,820
angels exist and whether they dance on

1760
01:10:41,870 --> 01:10:40,440
the tip of a pin but you can ask this

1761
01:10:43,610 --> 01:10:41,880
question Suppose there are angels and

1762
01:10:45,649 --> 01:10:43,620
they dance on the tip of a pin how many

1763
01:10:47,990 --> 01:10:45,659
can do it and then you can say okay let

1764
01:10:50,510 --> 01:10:48,000
me generalize this equation in 10

1765
01:10:52,430 --> 01:10:50,520
dimensions and do the calculation in 10

1766
01:10:55,370 --> 01:10:52,440
dimensions and develop your very

1767
01:10:58,189 --> 01:10:55,380
sophisticated math and people say wow

1768
01:11:00,050 --> 01:10:58,199
wow that's amazing how was that possible

1769
01:11:01,729 --> 01:11:00,060
to solve the equations of angels dancing

1770
01:11:03,890 --> 01:11:01,739
on the tip of opinion 10 Dimension

1771
01:11:05,870 --> 01:11:03,900
that's really exciting and then they

1772
01:11:09,470 --> 01:11:05,880
would say oh yeah but actually this is

1773
01:11:11,450 --> 01:11:09,480
not completely you know uh undeserving

1774
01:11:13,610 --> 01:11:11,460
the fact that we dedicated decades to

1775
01:11:16,610 --> 01:11:13,620
asking this question because we can use

1776
01:11:19,070 --> 01:11:16,620
the mathematics to solve that question

1777
01:11:22,669 --> 01:11:19,080
we can use it in the context of

1778
01:11:25,910 --> 01:11:22,679
understanding uh Quantum chromodynamics

1779
01:11:29,330 --> 01:11:25,920
you know like the the uh we can apply to

1780
01:11:31,010 --> 01:11:29,340
qcd uh to to the study of nuclei okay so

1781
01:11:32,689 --> 01:11:31,020
you develop some mathematics for one

1782
01:11:34,550 --> 01:11:32,699
question you say oh now I can use that

1783
01:11:36,950 --> 01:11:34,560
mathematics for another question well I

1784
01:11:39,110 --> 01:11:36,960
say that's that's legitimate that's

1785
01:11:40,550 --> 01:11:39,120
that's good but that's not the work of a

1786
01:11:42,950 --> 01:11:40,560
physicist now physicist is supposed to

1787
01:11:44,330 --> 01:11:42,960
ask questions that have to do with

1788
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:44,340
reality and the way you learn about

1789
01:11:49,790 --> 01:11:47,520
reality is by experiments and not by

1790
01:11:52,070 --> 01:11:49,800
intellectual gymnastics and the reason

1791
01:11:54,649 --> 01:11:52,080
that you can be engaged just in

1792
01:11:57,290 --> 01:11:54,659
intellectual gymnastics without any

1793
01:11:58,910 --> 01:11:57,300
contact with reality is if the

1794
01:12:01,250 --> 01:11:58,920
motivation to show that you are smart

1795
01:12:04,130 --> 01:12:01,260
that if that is the motivation then you

1796
01:12:07,390 --> 01:12:04,140
don't care about experiments and and

1797
01:12:11,570 --> 01:12:07,400
that unfortunately is much much more

1798
01:12:13,430 --> 01:12:11,580
prevalent right now in the theoretical

1799
01:12:15,110 --> 01:12:13,440
physics Community showing that you are

1800
01:12:17,390 --> 01:12:15,120
smart and doing mathematical gymnastics

1801
01:12:19,250 --> 01:12:17,400
and I say you know that's a distraction

1802
01:12:22,189 --> 01:12:19,260
from the main

1803
01:12:24,050 --> 01:12:22,199
uh objective of physics which is to

1804
01:12:26,030 --> 01:12:24,060
describe reality and why is that

1805
01:12:28,130 --> 01:12:26,040
important to understand reality because

1806
01:12:31,790 --> 01:12:28,140
we live in that reality and we have to

1807
01:12:35,030 --> 01:12:31,800
adapt to it okay so in order to adapt to

1808
01:12:37,370 --> 01:12:35,040
reality we need to understand it we need

1809
01:12:39,110 --> 01:12:37,380
to know what environment we live in you

1810
01:12:41,810 --> 01:12:39,120
know we need to know if there is climate

1811
01:12:44,090 --> 01:12:41,820
change so that we can develop policy for

1812
01:12:45,590 --> 01:12:44,100
that we need to know if the Earth moves

1813
01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:45,600
around the Sun or the sun moves around

1814
01:12:49,910 --> 01:12:48,000
the Earth in order to develop spaceship

1815
01:12:52,970 --> 01:12:49,920
that will go into space in the right

1816
01:12:55,189 --> 01:12:52,980
direction and remove correctly so all of

1817
01:12:57,649 --> 01:12:55,199
these things if we want to cure diseases

1818
01:12:59,450 --> 01:12:57,659
if we want to cure the pandemic you know

1819
01:13:02,390 --> 01:12:59,460
we need to understand how viruses

1820
01:13:05,209 --> 01:13:02,400
operate and develop an mRNA vaccine for

1821
01:13:07,370 --> 01:13:05,219
them so all of this has to do with us

1822
01:13:10,010 --> 01:13:07,380
figuring out what reality is and

1823
01:13:12,590 --> 01:13:10,020
adapting to it and it's irresponsible of

1824
01:13:16,430 --> 01:13:12,600
us to pursue a different goal which is

1825
01:13:18,410 --> 01:13:16,440
to elevate our ego to boost our ego to

1826
01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:18,420
brag in our intellectual gymnastics

1827
01:13:22,669 --> 01:13:21,360
because that may have nothing to do with

1828
01:13:25,010 --> 01:13:22,679
the reality that we're trying to

1829
01:13:27,470 --> 01:13:25,020
understand as physicists okay I have

1830
01:13:29,870 --> 01:13:27,480
many technical questions so but let me

1831
01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:29,880
just briefly get to one comment so would

1832
01:13:33,290 --> 01:13:31,440
you be okay then if theoretical

1833
01:13:34,850 --> 01:13:33,300
physicists change their name from

1834
01:13:36,530 --> 01:13:34,860
theoretical physicists to Pure

1835
01:13:38,930 --> 01:13:36,540
mathematicians oh yeah it could still be

1836
01:13:41,930 --> 01:13:38,940
a problem it's purely a categorization

1837
01:13:44,570 --> 01:13:41,940
problem no problem whatsoever you know

1838
01:13:47,570 --> 01:13:44,580
if a plumber comes to my home okay and

1839
01:13:50,090 --> 01:13:47,580
says I'm a plumber then I would ask the

1840
01:13:52,430 --> 01:13:50,100
plumber to fix the toilet

1841
01:13:54,709 --> 01:13:52,440
now suppose the plumber will tell me no

1842
01:13:57,410 --> 01:13:54,719
that's too difficult of a task I cannot

1843
01:14:00,110 --> 01:13:57,420
do it so I would say okay can you fix my

1844
01:14:01,850 --> 01:14:00,120
faucet you know it's not working and the

1845
01:14:03,229 --> 01:14:01,860
plumber would say oh that's also too

1846
01:14:07,010 --> 01:14:03,239
difficult then I would say you're not a

1847
01:14:09,770 --> 01:14:07,020
plumber so I I asked string theories I

1848
01:14:11,630 --> 01:14:09,780
say okay you are working on the

1849
01:14:14,149 --> 01:14:11,640
unification of quantum mechanics and

1850
01:14:15,770 --> 01:14:14,159
gravity I have two problems for you just

1851
01:14:18,950 --> 01:14:15,780
like the toilet and the and the faucet

1852
01:14:21,950 --> 01:14:18,960
one problem is uh what happened around

1853
01:14:23,510 --> 01:14:21,960
the big bag can you tell me and they say

1854
01:14:24,770 --> 01:14:23,520
no that's too difficult we can't really

1855
01:14:27,169 --> 01:14:24,780
stop that problem

1856
01:14:29,570 --> 01:14:27,179
so I said okay forget about the Big Bang

1857
01:14:31,490 --> 01:14:29,580
let's discuss the singularity at the

1858
01:14:33,110 --> 01:14:31,500
center of a black hole we know that we

1859
01:14:35,689 --> 01:14:33,120
need quantum mechanics and gravity for

1860
01:14:38,270 --> 01:14:35,699
that can you solve that problem and they

1861
01:14:41,510 --> 01:14:38,280
say no it's too difficult

1862
01:14:43,970 --> 01:14:41,520
so I say okay well so change your job

1863
01:14:45,229 --> 01:14:43,980
definition Because unless you solve

1864
01:14:47,209 --> 01:14:45,239
problems

1865
01:14:49,310 --> 01:14:47,219
you cannot call yourself a physicist

1866
01:14:51,770 --> 01:14:49,320
problems about objects in reality like

1867
01:14:53,570 --> 01:14:51,780
the big bang we know you know the

1868
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:53,580
universe started from a hot dense phase

1869
01:14:58,790 --> 01:14:56,400
and if you use Einstein's equations you

1870
01:15:01,330 --> 01:14:58,800
get to a singularity so curing that

1871
01:15:04,130 --> 01:15:01,340
Singularity is a fundamental question

1872
01:15:07,010 --> 01:15:04,140
that currently we don't

1873
01:15:08,570 --> 01:15:07,020
have a solution too because you know we

1874
01:15:10,850 --> 01:15:08,580
don't have a quantum theory of gravity

1875
01:15:12,709 --> 01:15:10,860
but if string theory is you should first

1876
01:15:15,169 --> 01:15:12,719
offer the solution before claiming that

1877
01:15:16,990 --> 01:15:15,179
you're solving Quantum grab okay and the

1878
01:15:20,750 --> 01:15:17,000
same about singularities of black holes

1879
01:15:24,110 --> 01:15:20,760
so all I'm saying is the job definition

1880
01:15:26,330 --> 01:15:24,120
matters because people get paid to be

1881
01:15:27,350 --> 01:15:26,340
clamorous you see you can't just say

1882
01:15:30,590 --> 01:15:27,360
that you're

1883
01:15:32,750 --> 01:15:30,600
not yeah okay I understand also there's

1884
01:15:34,370 --> 01:15:32,760
this claim that hey in pure physics oh

1885
01:15:36,709 --> 01:15:34,380
sorry not pure physics in theoretical

1886
01:15:37,750 --> 01:15:36,719
physics and pure math that eventually

1887
01:15:40,130 --> 01:15:37,760
today's

1888
01:15:41,990 --> 01:15:40,140
abstractions are tomorrow's applied for

1889
01:15:43,729 --> 01:15:42,000
example in string theory there's plenty

1890
01:15:46,130 --> 01:15:43,739
of applications to condensed matter

1891
01:15:48,470 --> 01:15:46,140
physics however and that comes about

1892
01:15:50,510 --> 01:15:48,480
decades later or so however I find that

1893
01:15:53,270 --> 01:15:50,520
to be a dubious claim and the reason is

1894
01:15:55,070 --> 01:15:53,280
that if you look at what's applied now

1895
01:15:57,709 --> 01:15:55,080
it almost certainly has a theoretical

1896
01:16:00,169 --> 01:15:57,719
origin but if you look at the totality

1897
01:16:01,550 --> 01:16:00,179
of theoretical work it's not as if all

1898
01:16:03,830 --> 01:16:01,560
of it's applied like I haven't seen an

1899
01:16:05,149 --> 01:16:03,840
analysis done on string theory let's say

1900
01:16:07,130 --> 01:16:05,159
let's look at all the string theory

1901
01:16:09,110 --> 01:16:07,140
papers how much of it has been applied

1902
01:16:11,209 --> 01:16:09,120
to condensed matter physics or see even

1903
01:16:12,950 --> 01:16:11,219
pure mathematics so it's easy to look

1904
01:16:14,870 --> 01:16:12,960
back with hindsight and say oh yes

1905
01:16:16,550 --> 01:16:14,880
cryptography yes we use combinatorics

1906
01:16:18,709 --> 01:16:16,560
though we thought would never have any

1907
01:16:20,689 --> 01:16:18,719
applications from the 1940s and 50s but

1908
01:16:22,610 --> 01:16:20,699
then it did yeah okay yeah but you have

1909
01:16:24,530 --> 01:16:22,620
a survivorship bias there so you can't

1910
01:16:25,850 --> 01:16:24,540
just fund research no matter what

1911
01:16:27,290 --> 01:16:25,860
thinking that hopefully it will have

1912
01:16:29,030 --> 01:16:27,300
some application because in the past

1913
01:16:30,470 --> 01:16:29,040
anything that was a applied was

1914
01:16:32,149 --> 01:16:30,480
theoretical before because you have to

1915
01:16:33,350 --> 01:16:32,159
look at the other direction too and I

1916
01:16:35,810 --> 01:16:33,360
don't know if an analysis that's been

1917
01:16:37,970 --> 01:16:35,820
done no so I have no issue whatsoever

1918
01:16:40,130 --> 01:16:37,980
with pure math I think that's a very

1919
01:16:42,770 --> 01:16:40,140
valuable occupation but you have to

1920
01:16:44,930 --> 01:16:42,780
Define your work it's pure math that

1921
01:16:47,030 --> 01:16:44,940
that's perfectly fine and then

1922
01:16:49,490 --> 01:16:47,040
universities can decide how big the

1923
01:16:51,649 --> 01:16:49,500
Departments of pure math would be but

1924
01:16:55,430 --> 01:16:51,659
you can't have people that practice pure

1925
01:16:58,669 --> 01:16:55,440
math for a century you know which is the

1926
01:17:00,169 --> 01:16:58,679
lifetime of a person in the physics so

1927
01:17:02,510 --> 01:17:00,179
the question there is a characteristic

1928
01:17:04,370 --> 01:17:02,520
time scale if you do pure math let's say

1929
01:17:07,250 --> 01:17:04,380
for a decade or two before it actually

1930
01:17:09,290 --> 01:17:07,260
is compared to experiments that that was

1931
01:17:11,450 --> 01:17:09,300
the traditional practice of physics but

1932
01:17:14,270 --> 01:17:11,460
if you do pure math for the entirety of

1933
01:17:16,070 --> 01:17:14,280
your career and then we will never know

1934
01:17:19,550 --> 01:17:16,080
during your lifetime whether it's

1935
01:17:22,430 --> 01:17:19,560
relevant to reality or not I say you

1936
01:17:23,990 --> 01:17:22,440
know it's that's what pure math is all

1937
01:17:26,630 --> 01:17:24,000
about that you never know how because

1938
01:17:28,490 --> 01:17:26,640
even pure pure math in mathematics by

1939
01:17:31,189 --> 01:17:28,500
mathematicians is applied event actually

1940
01:17:34,790 --> 01:17:31,199
in some context of physics right but the

1941
01:17:38,570 --> 01:17:34,800
way to Define pure math is as ideas that

1942
01:17:41,410 --> 01:17:38,580
are not necessarily applied uh to the

1943
01:17:44,149 --> 01:17:41,420
real world and describe the real world

1944
01:17:46,070 --> 01:17:44,159
during the lifetime of the practitioners

1945
01:17:48,410 --> 01:17:46,080
not necessarily and there are

1946
01:17:50,390 --> 01:17:48,420
mathematicians that invented

1947
01:17:52,250 --> 01:17:50,400
mathematical Concepts that were applied

1948
01:17:55,070 --> 01:17:52,260
shortly after they invented them and

1949
01:17:57,410 --> 01:17:55,080
they were mathematicians okay so the

1950
01:17:59,930 --> 01:17:57,420
distinction is that physics is engaged

1951
01:18:02,030 --> 01:17:59,940
with reality through experiments and if

1952
01:18:04,610 --> 01:18:02,040
there is a subject on which no

1953
01:18:06,290 --> 01:18:04,620
experimental data comes our way for a

1954
01:18:08,390 --> 01:18:06,300
very long time there are many other

1955
01:18:10,729 --> 01:18:08,400
subjects that we can work on doesn't

1956
01:18:13,610 --> 01:18:10,739
mean that we should insist working on

1957
01:18:15,229 --> 01:18:13,620
something that we have no data on uh

1958
01:18:16,790 --> 01:18:15,239
perhaps we should wait for that data in

1959
01:18:18,890 --> 01:18:16,800
the context of quantum gravity is

1960
01:18:20,510 --> 01:18:18,900
waiting for example for gravitational

1961
01:18:22,729 --> 01:18:20,520
waves to be detected from the early

1962
01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:22,739
universe or learning something about

1963
01:18:26,810 --> 01:18:24,480
black hole singularities that we didn't

1964
01:18:29,149 --> 01:18:26,820
know about but until that data comes

1965
01:18:30,770 --> 01:18:29,159
along we have no guidance and my point

1966
01:18:33,169 --> 01:18:30,780
is if you look at a hundred years back

1967
01:18:35,990 --> 01:18:33,179
quantum mechanics was discovered by

1968
01:18:41,270 --> 01:18:36,000
experiments nobody expected it uh in

1969
01:18:43,270 --> 01:18:41,280
fact in around 1900 a very uh famous one

1970
01:18:47,030 --> 01:18:43,280
of the most distinguished

1971
01:18:49,189 --> 01:18:47,040
experimental physicists Michaelson uh

1972
01:18:51,950 --> 01:18:49,199
who actually did the Michaelson Morley

1973
01:18:54,410 --> 01:18:51,960
experiment that uh led to Einstein's

1974
01:18:56,750 --> 01:18:54,420
special theory referrativity he uh gave

1975
01:19:00,470 --> 01:18:56,760
a speech at the inauguration of a

1976
01:19:03,290 --> 01:19:00,480
laboratory in Chicago and he said that

1977
01:19:05,990 --> 01:19:03,300
from now on you know most of physics is

1978
01:19:07,870 --> 01:19:06,000
solved that was 1900 also physics is

1979
01:19:09,430 --> 01:19:07,880
solved and the only thing that remains

1980
01:19:12,110 --> 01:19:09,440
is

1981
01:19:14,390 --> 01:19:12,120
measurements of the fundamental

1982
01:19:16,250 --> 01:19:14,400
constants in physics to the sixth

1983
01:19:19,729 --> 01:19:16,260
decimal point

1984
01:19:21,410 --> 01:19:19,739
and how wrong was he because five years

1985
01:19:23,990 --> 01:19:21,420
later Albert Einstein came with special

1986
01:19:25,729 --> 01:19:24,000
theory of relativity that that revised

1987
01:19:27,649 --> 01:19:25,739
our Notions of space and time then

1988
01:19:29,810 --> 01:19:27,659
general theory of relativity that

1989
01:19:31,669 --> 01:19:29,820
revised our notion of gravity and then

1990
01:19:34,430 --> 01:19:31,679
quantum mechanics a completely

1991
01:19:35,930 --> 01:19:34,440
unexpected Discovery okay that reality

1992
01:19:39,130 --> 01:19:35,940
is not what we expect from classical

1993
01:19:41,570 --> 01:19:39,140
physics just to show you that without

1994
01:19:43,430 --> 01:19:41,580
experimental guidance that led to the

1995
01:19:46,010 --> 01:19:43,440
diver the birth of quantum mechanics we

1996
01:19:48,910 --> 01:19:46,020
would never be there okay and Albert

1997
01:19:51,709 --> 01:19:48,920
Einstein argued that quantum mechanics

1998
01:19:53,510 --> 01:19:51,719
uh perhaps can be interpreted in the

1999
01:19:56,630 --> 01:19:53,520
same way as classical physics but he was

2000
01:19:59,450 --> 01:19:56,640
wrong Niels Bohr was right on this and

2001
01:20:01,729 --> 01:19:59,460
now all the gadgets that we use you know

2002
01:20:04,070 --> 01:20:01,739
like these computers that the two of us

2003
01:20:06,530 --> 01:20:04,080
are using to communicate or cell phones

2004
01:20:08,990 --> 01:20:06,540
it's all based on quantum mechanics so

2005
01:20:11,330 --> 01:20:09,000
here is applied physics a whole industry

2006
01:20:15,050 --> 01:20:11,340
of Applied Physics that came out from

2007
01:20:17,270 --> 01:20:15,060
the discovery of quantum mechanics

2008
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:17,280
from experiments and I said what's the

2009
01:20:23,390 --> 01:20:21,360
lesson of that that we nature is very

2010
01:20:25,669 --> 01:20:23,400
subtle we don't know in advance before

2011
01:20:28,610 --> 01:20:25,679
experiments what nature is about

2012
01:20:30,410 --> 01:20:28,620
okay and if you don't have guidance by

2013
01:20:33,169 --> 01:20:30,420
experiments you may go in the wrong

2014
01:20:35,630 --> 01:20:33,179
direction you may go into a dark alley

2015
01:20:37,610 --> 01:20:35,640
and to claim that we can come up with a

2016
01:20:39,229 --> 01:20:37,620
theory of quantum gravity just based on

2017
01:20:43,729 --> 01:20:39,239
pure thought

2018
01:20:47,149 --> 01:20:43,739
is arrogant and in fact String Theory

2019
01:20:49,250 --> 01:20:47,159
did not come up with very concrete

2020
01:20:51,050 --> 01:20:49,260
solutions to the Big Bang to

2021
01:20:55,490 --> 01:20:51,060
singularities in black holes over five

2022
01:20:57,410 --> 01:20:55,500
decades okay so I say we took that path

2023
01:20:59,450 --> 01:20:57,420
it didn't lead to predictions that can

2024
01:21:01,490 --> 01:20:59,460
be tested experimentally

2025
01:21:04,610 --> 01:21:01,500
and I asked young people do you want to

2026
01:21:07,010 --> 01:21:04,620
be engaged in an Endeavor that is part

2027
01:21:09,169 --> 01:21:07,020
of course itself part of physics but

2028
01:21:12,709 --> 01:21:09,179
does not have any confrontation with

2029
01:21:16,189 --> 01:21:12,719
reality I mean you could spend your life

2030
01:21:19,729 --> 01:21:16,199
with a notion that is not necessarily

2031
01:21:21,530 --> 01:21:19,739
used by Nature okay and there are many

2032
01:21:25,010 --> 01:21:21,540
other fundamental questions that we can

2033
01:21:26,570 --> 01:21:25,020
address that have experimental tests so

2034
01:21:30,310 --> 01:21:26,580
why not engage in those you know they

2035
01:21:33,649 --> 01:21:30,320
are huge problems that the society faces

2036
01:21:36,590 --> 01:21:33,659
and at the same time as you see that you

2037
01:21:39,050 --> 01:21:36,600
know that attitude of saying let's toy

2038
01:21:41,570 --> 01:21:39,060
with mathematical ideas that you know

2039
01:21:43,850 --> 01:21:41,580
that we can do gymnastics intellectual

2040
01:21:45,470 --> 01:21:43,860
gymnastics on at the same time that you

2041
01:21:46,790 --> 01:21:45,480
have that as part of the mainstream

2042
01:21:49,490 --> 01:21:46,800
simply because there wasn't any

2043
01:21:51,290 --> 01:21:49,500
experimental feedback from uh

2044
01:21:53,330 --> 01:21:51,300
you know from the superconducting super

2045
01:21:56,450 --> 01:21:53,340
collider that was envisioned back in the

2046
01:21:57,890 --> 01:21:56,460
1980s but was not funded by Congress as

2047
01:21:59,930 --> 01:21:57,900
a result there was no feedback from

2048
01:22:02,209 --> 01:21:59,940
experiments so there was this entire

2049
01:22:04,370 --> 01:22:02,219
community of theories divorced from

2050
01:22:06,590 --> 01:22:04,380
experiments so at the same time that you

2051
01:22:09,110 --> 01:22:06,600
see that in the mainstream

2052
01:22:11,330 --> 01:22:09,120
you see also resistance

2053
01:22:14,209 --> 01:22:11,340
to study

2054
01:22:16,430 --> 01:22:14,219
unusual objects that enter the solar

2055
01:22:19,490 --> 01:22:16,440
system as if they were artificial like

2056
01:22:21,950 --> 01:22:19,500
this is the most mundane simple-minded

2057
01:22:23,689 --> 01:22:21,960
common sensical thing and it's a

2058
01:22:25,550 --> 01:22:23,699
fraction of the cost as well compared to

2059
01:22:28,970 --> 01:22:25,560
how much is spent on theoretical physics

2060
01:22:31,490 --> 01:22:28,980
each year let's get to the the first

2061
01:22:35,149 --> 01:22:31,500
goal which was the Papua New Guinea

2062
01:22:37,430 --> 01:22:35,159
Expedition now let me quickly summarize

2063
01:22:39,890 --> 01:22:37,440
to see if I have this correct

2064
01:22:42,890 --> 01:22:39,900
NASA was studying the skies and the

2065
01:22:45,410 --> 01:22:42,900
reason they do so is partly military so

2066
01:22:46,790 --> 01:22:45,420
they study the sky and they look for

2067
01:22:48,709 --> 01:22:46,800
well they're looking for threats but

2068
01:22:50,570 --> 01:22:48,719
they'll occasionally catch meteorites or

2069
01:22:51,590 --> 01:22:50,580
meteors so meteorite is when it hits the

2070
01:22:52,910 --> 01:22:51,600
ground the meteor is when it just

2071
01:22:55,370 --> 01:22:52,920
disintegrates without hitting the ground

2072
01:22:57,229 --> 01:22:55,380
okay and a meteoroid I just looked this

2073
01:22:58,310 --> 01:22:57,239
up for meteoroid is when it's it would

2074
01:22:59,570 --> 01:22:58,320
have been a meteor but it's not it's

2075
01:23:02,450 --> 01:22:59,580
around the same size doesn't even hit

2076
01:23:04,430 --> 01:23:02,460
Earth correct yeah uh it's basically an

2077
01:23:06,229 --> 01:23:04,440
object an object that collides with the

2078
01:23:11,030 --> 01:23:06,239
Earth and burns up in the atmosphere yes

2079
01:23:14,090 --> 01:23:11,040
okay so there were 274 or so of these

2080
01:23:15,890 --> 01:23:14,100
that were collected across several years

2081
01:23:17,330 --> 01:23:15,900
yeah you looked at some of the data and

2082
01:23:18,830 --> 01:23:17,340
you saw that the speed of one was

2083
01:23:20,390 --> 01:23:18,840
greatly different than the speed of the

2084
01:23:22,250 --> 01:23:20,400
rest and greatly different in that it

2085
01:23:24,649 --> 01:23:22,260
exceeded the speed of the rest and now

2086
01:23:26,570 --> 01:23:24,659
my speed is important is because just

2087
01:23:28,550 --> 01:23:26,580
like there's an escape velocity of the

2088
01:23:30,649 --> 01:23:28,560
Earth to get out of Earth's orbit

2089
01:23:32,149 --> 01:23:30,659
there's an escape velocity of a solar

2090
01:23:34,930 --> 01:23:32,159
system which I never considered before

2091
01:23:37,010 --> 01:23:34,940
and so if we're thinking of interstellar

2092
01:23:39,649 --> 01:23:37,020
objects then it would have to be around

2093
01:23:41,750 --> 01:23:39,659
that speed or greater okay so then what

2094
01:23:42,830 --> 01:23:41,760
we saw was or what you saw was that

2095
01:23:46,550 --> 01:23:42,840
there was

2096
01:23:49,669 --> 01:23:46,560
a high-speed meteorite

2097
01:23:51,770 --> 01:23:49,679
okay great high-speed meteorite and that

2098
01:23:54,350 --> 01:23:51,780
and the speed matters because it tells

2099
01:23:55,850 --> 01:23:54,360
you potentially its origin

2100
01:23:57,169 --> 01:23:55,860
so that's something that I want to I

2101
01:23:58,790 --> 01:23:57,179
kept hearing you bring up speed I'm like

2102
01:24:00,830 --> 01:23:58,800
why the heck does speed matter okay so

2103
01:24:03,649 --> 01:24:00,840
this is why speed matters yeah because I

2104
01:24:06,350 --> 01:24:03,659
just think about if you throw

2105
01:24:08,209 --> 01:24:06,360
um a rock up in the air it will fall

2106
01:24:11,209 --> 01:24:08,219
back because you don't throw it hard

2107
01:24:14,209 --> 01:24:11,219
enough but if NASA launches a spacecraft

2108
01:24:16,550 --> 01:24:14,219
and it moves fast enough it will escape

2109
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:16,560
the pool of the earth so speed matters

2110
01:24:21,350 --> 01:24:18,960
you need to overcome the the

2111
01:24:23,750 --> 01:24:21,360
gravitational potential of the earth

2112
01:24:25,729 --> 01:24:23,760
it's sort of like imagine a trampoline

2113
01:24:27,790 --> 01:24:25,739
Okay and the Earth is at the center of

2114
01:24:31,990 --> 01:24:27,800
the trampoline and it's sort of like a

2115
01:24:35,330 --> 01:24:32,000
bowling ball you know it creates a well

2116
01:24:38,209 --> 01:24:35,340
and if you want to throw a marble out of

2117
01:24:39,890 --> 01:24:38,219
the trampoline you need to throw it at a

2118
01:24:42,530 --> 01:24:39,900
high enough speed because otherwise it

2119
01:24:45,110 --> 01:24:42,540
will fall back and so there is always an

2120
01:24:47,090 --> 01:24:45,120
escape speed above which an object will

2121
01:24:49,850 --> 01:24:47,100
escape from the gravitational potential

2122
01:24:53,570 --> 01:24:49,860
well of the Earth or of the solar system

2123
01:24:57,530 --> 01:24:53,580
in the case of the Sun and and this

2124
01:24:59,709 --> 01:24:57,540
object by who way wasn't moving just

2125
01:25:03,169 --> 01:24:59,719
fast enough to escape

2126
01:25:05,570 --> 01:25:03,179
but it was moving actually outside of

2127
01:25:08,090 --> 01:25:05,580
the potential well faster than 95

2128
01:25:11,090 --> 01:25:08,100
percent of all the stars it was moving

2129
01:25:13,010 --> 01:25:11,100
at 60 kilometers per second outside the

2130
01:25:16,070 --> 01:25:13,020
solar system if you extrapolate back in

2131
01:25:17,810 --> 01:25:16,080
time so it was really fast

2132
01:25:19,790 --> 01:25:17,820
okay and just to get some numbers out of

2133
01:25:22,550 --> 01:25:19,800
the way approximately 11 kilometers per

2134
01:25:25,250 --> 01:25:22,560
second is Earth's yes and what is the

2135
01:25:27,890 --> 01:25:25,260
escape velocity of the solar system

2136
01:25:30,410 --> 01:25:27,900
now the solar system is at the location

2137
01:25:32,630 --> 01:25:30,420
of the earth it's 42 kilometers per

2138
01:25:35,630 --> 01:25:32,640
second it's it's always a square root of

2139
01:25:37,490 --> 01:25:35,640
two times the velocity of a circular

2140
01:25:38,209 --> 01:25:37,500
orbit around the object that you care

2141
01:25:40,669 --> 01:25:38,219
about

2142
01:25:43,370 --> 01:25:40,679
if you have okay gravity produced by a

2143
01:25:45,110 --> 01:25:43,380
single point mass at the center and

2144
01:25:46,970 --> 01:25:45,120
there is a certain speed by which an

2145
01:25:48,410 --> 01:25:46,980
object will move in a circular orbit in

2146
01:25:51,350 --> 01:25:48,420
the case of the earth it's about 30

2147
01:25:55,310 --> 01:25:51,360
kilometers per second and therefore the

2148
01:25:57,110 --> 01:25:55,320
Escape speed is the speed such as the

2149
01:25:58,610 --> 01:25:57,120
kinetic energy will equal the potential

2150
01:26:01,669 --> 01:25:58,620
energy and that's a square root of two

2151
01:26:04,070 --> 01:26:01,679
faster than the circular speed then

2152
01:26:05,390 --> 01:26:04,080
square root of 2 times 30 is about 42

2153
01:26:07,669 --> 01:26:05,400
kilometers per second so that's the

2154
01:26:09,830 --> 01:26:07,679
speed by which an object would move if

2155
01:26:12,770 --> 01:26:09,840
it were just to escape from the pool of

2156
01:26:15,410 --> 01:26:12,780
the Sun and came from the vicinity of

2157
01:26:18,470 --> 01:26:15,420
Earth okay but this object was moving

2158
01:26:21,050 --> 01:26:18,480
even faster than that if you I mean it

2159
01:26:23,750 --> 01:26:21,060
collided with Earth at 45 kilometers per

2160
01:26:26,930 --> 01:26:23,760
second but if you take out the motion of

2161
01:26:29,090 --> 01:26:26,940
the Earth because it was it came from

2162
01:26:31,430 --> 01:26:29,100
the side so to speak then it actually

2163
01:26:34,790 --> 01:26:31,440
moved at 60 kilometers per second

2164
01:26:37,250 --> 01:26:34,800
outside the source it was really fast

2165
01:26:39,950 --> 01:26:37,260
okay and then last question before I get

2166
01:26:42,649 --> 01:26:39,960
to someone Skinwalker and ce5 and

2167
01:26:46,010 --> 01:26:42,659
unidentified submerged objects and so on

2168
01:26:48,649 --> 01:26:46,020
the last question is okay so not only

2169
01:26:51,110 --> 01:26:48,659
was this going extremely quickly but

2170
01:26:53,689 --> 01:26:51,120
then when you analyzed well what's its

2171
01:26:55,970 --> 01:26:53,699
toughness it was twice as tough as the

2172
01:26:58,430 --> 01:26:55,980
second highest rock as well okay so it

2173
01:27:01,550 --> 01:26:58,440
has unusual characteristics okay now my

2174
01:27:05,330 --> 01:27:01,560
question is how the heck do you

2175
01:27:09,169 --> 01:27:05,340
find such an object when we can't find

2176
01:27:11,270 --> 01:27:09,179
Malaysian Airlines hours after let alone

2177
01:27:13,430 --> 01:27:11,280
decades later and it's a larger object

2178
01:27:15,350 --> 01:27:13,440
and we had governments involved and we

2179
01:27:17,209 --> 01:27:15,360
knew what it looked like in the size and

2180
01:27:18,649 --> 01:27:17,219
so on so what does this look like what

2181
01:27:22,430 --> 01:27:18,659
does this Papua New Guinea expedition

2182
01:27:25,370 --> 01:27:22,440
look like okay so the Malaysian airplane

2183
01:27:27,050 --> 01:27:25,380
did not create a fireball it did not

2184
01:27:28,970 --> 01:27:27,060
explode so that satellites or

2185
01:27:31,490 --> 01:27:28,980
ground-based observatories would see it

2186
01:27:33,770 --> 01:27:31,500
in the night sky so all we know about it

2187
01:27:36,110 --> 01:27:33,780
is that it moved along a certain path

2188
01:27:38,930 --> 01:27:36,120
okay and we don't know at which point

2189
01:27:43,010 --> 01:27:38,940
along the path it plunged into the water

2190
01:27:46,250 --> 01:27:43,020
okay so then we have a very long path to

2191
01:27:48,950 --> 01:27:46,260
study on the opposite floor and the area

2192
01:27:51,530 --> 01:27:48,960
that you have to explore is huge so even

2193
01:27:53,750 --> 01:27:51,540
though the object is bigger than this

2194
01:27:55,850 --> 01:27:53,760
meteor that we're talking about the area

2195
01:27:58,729 --> 01:27:55,860
that you need to explore is much much

2196
01:28:01,910 --> 01:27:58,739
larger okay and in the case of the

2197
01:28:06,590 --> 01:28:01,920
meteor we know where the explosion took

2198
01:28:09,350 --> 01:28:06,600
place so we have a square region that we

2199
01:28:11,870 --> 01:28:09,360
will study we also know what the wind

2200
01:28:14,629 --> 01:28:11,880
speed was at the time of the explosion

2201
01:28:17,629 --> 01:28:14,639
uh what the elevation was and what the

2202
01:28:20,570 --> 01:28:17,639
water currents were so we have a model

2203
01:28:22,970 --> 01:28:20,580
where we so we can calculate depending

2204
01:28:25,010 --> 01:28:22,980
on the fragment size distribution we can

2205
01:28:27,709 --> 01:28:25,020
calculate where the small fragments fell

2206
01:28:30,830 --> 01:28:27,719
and where the bigger fragments fell and

2207
01:28:35,450 --> 01:28:30,840
just it's just like mowing the lawn

2208
01:28:37,189 --> 01:28:35,460
basically uh scoop the the thin layer

2209
01:28:40,430 --> 01:28:37,199
the top layer of the ocean for any

2210
01:28:43,189 --> 01:28:40,440
fragments left and my point is this

2211
01:28:45,709 --> 01:28:43,199
meteor was really bright and we know

2212
01:28:47,870 --> 01:28:45,719
precisely just think about GPS systems

2213
01:28:49,550 --> 01:28:47,880
they can localize your car

2214
01:28:51,709 --> 01:28:49,560
in Boston

2215
01:28:54,290 --> 01:28:51,719
or in any other City to within a few

2216
01:28:57,169 --> 01:28:54,300
meters so imagine you get the GPS

2217
01:28:59,209 --> 01:28:57,179
coordinates of your car and then it

2218
01:29:01,669 --> 01:28:59,219
explodes okay

2219
01:29:03,709 --> 01:29:01,679
so you ask yourself how can I find you

2220
01:29:07,430 --> 01:29:03,719
know like if you only knew that the car

2221
01:29:09,709 --> 01:29:07,440
moved between New York City and Boston

2222
01:29:11,390 --> 01:29:09,719
you know it will be much tougher to find

2223
01:29:14,090 --> 01:29:11,400
the car

2224
01:29:16,430 --> 01:29:14,100
if it and suppose it didn't explode it

2225
01:29:18,110 --> 01:29:16,440
just went off the road somewhere then

2226
01:29:20,450 --> 01:29:18,120
you will it would take you a lot of time

2227
01:29:23,390 --> 01:29:20,460
to to find it and you might not find it

2228
01:29:25,610 --> 01:29:23,400
but if it exploded and you had you know

2229
01:29:27,590 --> 01:29:25,620
like photographs from satellites of the

2230
01:29:29,629 --> 01:29:27,600
Explorer you know the GPS location to

2231
01:29:31,610 --> 01:29:29,639
within a few meters it's a piece of cake

2232
01:29:34,010 --> 01:29:31,620
to find the fragments so that's the

2233
01:29:36,830 --> 01:29:34,020
difference all right let's get to a

2234
01:29:39,290 --> 01:29:36,840
question about Jack valet so Jack Valley

2235
01:29:41,510 --> 01:29:39,300
I saw this video and I'll play it for

2236
01:29:43,729 --> 01:29:41,520
the people who are watching right now 20

2237
01:29:45,950 --> 01:29:43,739
years ago you know that was a very

2238
01:29:48,110 --> 01:29:45,960
marginal idea in science today it's not

2239
01:29:49,970 --> 01:29:48,120
such a marginal idea in science if you

2240
01:29:51,470 --> 01:29:49,980
look at the sky and Telescope magazine a

2241
01:29:53,810 --> 01:29:51,480
year and a half ago published an article

2242
01:29:55,729 --> 01:29:53,820
about the creation of universes with

2243
01:29:57,290 --> 01:29:55,739
multiple Dimensions moving a light and

2244
01:29:59,450 --> 01:29:57,300
going to each other that's a very

2245
01:30:01,430 --> 01:29:59,460
interesting idea it's a theory and

2246
01:30:03,350 --> 01:30:01,440
perhaps the UFO phenomenon is giving us

2247
01:30:04,850 --> 01:30:03,360
the opportunity to test some of those

2248
01:30:06,470 --> 01:30:04,860
Advanced theories in physics I think

2249
01:30:08,689 --> 01:30:06,480
that's why we should look at it Jacques

2250
01:30:10,850 --> 01:30:08,699
says that uaps could potentially be used

2251
01:30:12,590 --> 01:30:10,860
to test for alternate universes or

2252
01:30:14,090 --> 01:30:12,600
perhaps mentions though I think he says

2253
01:30:16,970 --> 01:30:14,100
universes

2254
01:30:18,830 --> 01:30:16,980
so what's your opinion on this okay so

2255
01:30:21,530 --> 01:30:18,840
as a physicist

2256
01:30:25,490 --> 01:30:21,540
the standard approach you take when you

2257
01:30:28,090 --> 01:30:25,500
examine experimental data is to say you

2258
01:30:31,250 --> 01:30:28,100
know we have a standard model of physics

2259
01:30:33,530 --> 01:30:31,260
it's uh it's a set of rules and

2260
01:30:35,330 --> 01:30:33,540
equations that were tested many times in

2261
01:30:37,490 --> 01:30:35,340
many laboratory experiments okay and

2262
01:30:39,770 --> 01:30:37,500
that's what we use for technological

2263
01:30:42,530 --> 01:30:39,780
development when we develop a cell phone

2264
01:30:44,629 --> 01:30:42,540
we base it on the known laws of physics

2265
01:30:46,550 --> 01:30:44,639
you know no company would say oh maybe

2266
01:30:48,649 --> 01:30:46,560
the quantum mechanics is wrong let's

2267
01:30:50,810 --> 01:30:48,659
develop a cell phone based on some idea

2268
01:30:53,330 --> 01:30:50,820
about how quantum mechanics may be wrong

2269
01:30:55,370 --> 01:30:53,340
or maybe we will build a a cell phone

2270
01:30:57,649 --> 01:30:55,380
that operates in other dimensions or

2271
01:30:59,990 --> 01:30:57,659
maybe a cell phone that communicates

2272
01:31:02,870 --> 01:31:00,000
with another Universe you know no

2273
01:31:06,050 --> 01:31:02,880
company would survive if it were to

2274
01:31:08,390 --> 01:31:06,060
Advocate that it will build a piece of

2275
01:31:11,810 --> 01:31:08,400
Technology based on unknown physics

2276
01:31:14,149 --> 01:31:11,820
because it will most of the time you

2277
01:31:16,790 --> 01:31:14,159
know almost always be proven wrong like

2278
01:31:18,290 --> 01:31:16,800
if this company is successful then they

2279
01:31:21,050 --> 01:31:18,300
will get the Nobel Prize because they

2280
01:31:22,790 --> 01:31:21,060
discover the Rudolph visit so the

2281
01:31:25,669 --> 01:31:22,800
standard approach in doing science or

2282
01:31:28,550 --> 01:31:25,679
physics is to adapt what is known as the

2283
01:31:32,090 --> 01:31:28,560
standard model of physics and

2284
01:31:35,330 --> 01:31:32,100
use it first to interpret any data you

2285
01:31:38,750 --> 01:31:35,340
get any experimental evidence so suppose

2286
01:31:41,030 --> 01:31:38,760
you include UAP in the unidentified

2287
01:31:43,070 --> 01:31:41,040
objects the first approach of the

2288
01:31:45,470 --> 01:31:43,080
Galileo project in particular would be

2289
01:31:46,250 --> 01:31:45,480
to use the standard laws of you know the

2290
01:31:49,370 --> 01:31:46,260
the

2291
01:31:51,350 --> 01:31:49,380
standard model of physics to interpret

2292
01:31:53,570 --> 01:31:51,360
whatever we see so we have a set of

2293
01:31:56,090 --> 01:31:53,580
instruments detecting things we will use

2294
01:31:58,729 --> 01:31:56,100
the laws of physics as we know them now

2295
01:32:01,550 --> 01:31:58,739
if we see an object behaving in ways

2296
01:32:04,370 --> 01:32:01,560
that definitely violate the laws of

2297
01:32:07,729 --> 01:32:04,380
physics we will go there but before we

2298
01:32:10,070 --> 01:32:07,739
see that there is no reason and moreover

2299
01:32:11,629 --> 01:32:10,080
I should say the first thing I would

2300
01:32:14,090 --> 01:32:11,639
check if I see something moving let's

2301
01:32:16,550 --> 01:32:14,100
say faster than light just as an example

2302
01:32:19,550 --> 01:32:16,560
you see a point of light

2303
01:32:22,250 --> 01:32:19,560
moving across the sky faster than light

2304
01:32:26,390 --> 01:32:22,260
okay and you can in principle infer that

2305
01:32:29,689 --> 01:32:26,400
it could be that it's an artifact of the

2306
01:32:32,570 --> 01:32:29,699
Optics because there is some reflection

2307
01:32:34,669 --> 01:32:32,580
in your detector that moves the point of

2308
01:32:36,290 --> 01:32:34,679
light faster than light if you think

2309
01:32:38,030 --> 01:32:36,300
that it's far away but in fact it's

2310
01:32:39,709 --> 01:32:38,040
moving only within the instrument so

2311
01:32:41,510 --> 01:32:39,719
well you know and and it's really

2312
01:32:44,030 --> 01:32:41,520
difficult you do a lot of experiments

2313
01:32:45,950 --> 01:32:44,040
you don't find deviations so it's not as

2314
01:32:47,390 --> 01:32:45,960
if you just see something unusual and

2315
01:32:48,709 --> 01:32:47,400
you say okay the laws of physics are

2316
01:32:50,770 --> 01:32:48,719
wrong you can't just do that that's

2317
01:32:55,310 --> 01:32:50,780
irresponsible you have to

2318
01:32:56,629 --> 01:32:55,320
study the whatever you're studying with

2319
01:32:58,370 --> 01:32:56,639
the best instruments you have to

2320
01:33:00,890 --> 01:32:58,380
understand the instruments you know it

2321
01:33:03,770 --> 01:33:00,900
takes a lot of steps and currently the

2322
01:33:05,930 --> 01:33:03,780
data on UAP is not good enough it's you

2323
01:33:09,250 --> 01:33:05,940
know many of the images are blurry many

2324
01:33:13,490 --> 01:33:09,260
of them are based on uh uh you know

2325
01:33:14,930 --> 01:33:13,500
amateurs taking the data and so we

2326
01:33:16,970 --> 01:33:14,940
really need to go through the scientific

2327
01:33:20,090 --> 01:33:16,980
process to validate that there is

2328
01:33:22,430 --> 01:33:20,100
something beyond the standard physics

2329
01:33:24,890 --> 01:33:22,440
okay but Jacques valet is mentioning

2330
01:33:26,689 --> 01:33:24,900
that as a possibility I say you know

2331
01:33:28,550 --> 01:33:26,699
there are many possibilities just like

2332
01:33:30,470 --> 01:33:28,560
you know in the context of string theory

2333
01:33:33,290 --> 01:33:30,480
there is a possibility that

2334
01:33:35,510 --> 01:33:33,300
you know string theories of one type of

2335
01:33:37,610 --> 01:33:35,520
another type and of course a lot of

2336
01:33:39,649 --> 01:33:37,620
people can adjust a lot of possibilities

2337
01:33:40,910 --> 01:33:39,659
Jacques Valley may suggest one

2338
01:33:43,910 --> 01:33:40,920
possibility and then someone else will

2339
01:33:45,890 --> 01:33:43,920
suggest another but it doesn't mean that

2340
01:33:46,729 --> 01:33:45,900
we need to take it seriously until there

2341
01:33:54,669 --> 01:33:46,739
is

2342
01:33:57,050 --> 01:33:54,679
understood

2343
01:33:59,570 --> 01:33:57,060
Suite of instruments that detects it

2344
01:34:01,910 --> 01:33:59,580
okay and so we are not there yet that's

2345
01:34:04,430 --> 01:34:01,920
what the Galileo project aims to do in

2346
01:34:06,470 --> 01:34:04,440
and if we find that there is no physics

2347
01:34:08,090 --> 01:34:06,480
of course that would be extremely

2348
01:34:09,590 --> 01:34:08,100
exciting because it should apply to the

2349
01:34:11,770 --> 01:34:09,600
rest of the universe not just the

2350
01:34:14,750 --> 01:34:11,780
subject so suppose you find

2351
01:34:17,450 --> 01:34:14,760
uh you know something completely new

2352
01:34:19,550 --> 01:34:17,460
that physicists never imagine then it

2353
01:34:21,410 --> 01:34:19,560
applies everywhere in the universe and

2354
01:34:23,629 --> 01:34:21,420
and that would be of Much More Much

2355
01:34:27,229 --> 01:34:23,639
broader consequences because you can

2356
01:34:28,149 --> 01:34:27,239
build new devices based on that at that

2357
01:34:30,890 --> 01:34:28,159
point

2358
01:34:34,070 --> 01:34:30,900
technology development companies in

2359
01:34:36,950 --> 01:34:34,080
Silicon Valley could build gadgets that

2360
01:34:39,290 --> 01:34:36,960
make use of this knowledge okay so it

2361
01:34:40,610 --> 01:34:39,300
would be revolutionary but before we we

2362
01:34:42,850 --> 01:34:40,620
claim that we have something

2363
01:34:46,430 --> 01:34:42,860
revolutionary we should you know

2364
01:34:49,010 --> 01:34:46,440
consider the mundane first

2365
01:34:50,810 --> 01:34:49,020
there was a paper published last week by

2366
01:34:54,470 --> 01:34:50,820
zeliev and

2367
01:34:57,229 --> 01:34:54,480
and petukov and reshetnik about uaps in

2368
01:34:58,790 --> 01:34:57,239
Ukraine did you happen to look at this

2369
01:35:02,990 --> 01:34:58,800
or are you aware of it

2370
01:35:04,129 --> 01:35:03,000
yeah I actually saw it and you know

2371
01:35:07,010 --> 01:35:04,139
um

2372
01:35:10,610 --> 01:35:07,020
uh obviously Ukraine is currently in a

2373
01:35:13,729 --> 01:35:10,620
military conflict and there are lots of

2374
01:35:16,550 --> 01:35:13,739
things flying in the sky okay and uh

2375
01:35:19,250 --> 01:35:16,560
usually in scientific experiments we

2376
01:35:20,870 --> 01:35:19,260
want to minimize the level of noise of

2377
01:35:24,350 --> 01:35:20,880
spurious things that may be

2378
01:35:26,149 --> 01:35:24,360
misinterpreted so if I were to design a

2379
01:35:28,570 --> 01:35:26,159
place where I would search for

2380
01:35:32,410 --> 01:35:28,580
unidentified objects

2381
01:35:34,850 --> 01:35:32,420
Ukraine would be my last choice because

2382
01:35:37,610 --> 01:35:34,860
there would be so much noise you know

2383
01:35:41,689 --> 01:35:37,620
and and an experiment usually wants to

2384
01:35:45,350 --> 01:35:41,699
maximize the signal to noise ratio so um

2385
01:35:48,050 --> 01:35:45,360
I you know I find it surprising that the

2386
01:35:51,169 --> 01:35:48,060
paper about unidentified objects would

2387
01:35:53,330 --> 01:35:51,179
be written from that location because if

2388
01:35:55,729 --> 01:35:53,340
you wanted to study UAP you would go to

2389
01:35:58,490 --> 01:35:55,739
a remote site far away

2390
01:36:00,169 --> 01:35:58,500
okay speaking of a remote site that may

2391
01:36:02,689 --> 01:36:00,179
have plenty of signal rather than noise

2392
01:36:04,910 --> 01:36:02,699
what about Skinwalker have you thought

2393
01:36:07,790 --> 01:36:04,920
about putting some Observatory at

2394
01:36:09,110 --> 01:36:07,800
Skinwalker and if not why not what are

2395
01:36:11,270 --> 01:36:09,120
the criteria that you use to select

2396
01:36:14,450 --> 01:36:11,280
where to place an observatory

2397
01:36:16,970 --> 01:36:14,460
right so the first limitation we are

2398
01:36:19,430 --> 01:36:16,980
facing is the level of funding that we

2399
01:36:22,129 --> 01:36:19,440
have because at the moment we have one

2400
01:36:23,689 --> 01:36:22,139
Suite of instruments that cost me about

2401
01:36:26,689 --> 01:36:23,699
250

2402
01:36:28,610 --> 01:36:26,699
000 and we're testing it right now and

2403
01:36:31,729 --> 01:36:28,620
within a few months hopefully everything

2404
01:36:34,669 --> 01:36:31,739
will work and then we will deploy it at

2405
01:36:36,890 --> 01:36:34,679
the aside that would allow us to get the

2406
01:36:41,770 --> 01:36:36,900
useful data and analyze it so hopefully

2407
01:36:45,770 --> 01:36:41,780
by the summer of 2023 uh we'll have

2408
01:36:48,590 --> 01:36:45,780
data that we can share uh with the

2409
01:36:50,450 --> 01:36:48,600
public the scientists uh and that will

2410
01:36:51,709 --> 01:36:50,460
be peer reviewed in terms of its

2411
01:36:54,649 --> 01:36:51,719
interpretation

2412
01:36:57,770 --> 01:36:54,659
um but in order for us to build many

2413
01:37:00,709 --> 01:36:57,780
more systems like it we need to expand

2414
01:37:02,330 --> 01:37:00,719
the funding level of of the Galileo

2415
01:37:05,629 --> 01:37:02,340
project at the moment it's only a few

2416
01:37:07,610 --> 01:37:05,639
million dollars and in order for us to

2417
01:37:09,830 --> 01:37:07,620
expand it by a factor of 10 we need a

2418
01:37:12,350 --> 01:37:09,840
few tens of millions of dollars so if we

2419
01:37:14,390 --> 01:37:12,360
do get that we will be able to to place

2420
01:37:16,030 --> 01:37:14,400
a lot of stations in many locations

2421
01:37:19,430 --> 01:37:16,040
including perhaps

2422
01:37:20,750 --> 01:37:19,440
Skinwalker I have no in fact it would be

2423
01:37:23,750 --> 01:37:20,760
interesting to see if there is anything

2424
01:37:25,910 --> 01:37:23,760
unusual there the only locations that

2425
01:37:28,850 --> 01:37:25,920
I'm hesitant about are those that may

2426
01:37:32,209 --> 01:37:28,860
involve sensitive facilities like

2427
01:37:34,790 --> 01:37:32,219
nuclear plants or military bases simply

2428
01:37:36,010 --> 01:37:34,800
because of National Security issues so I

2429
01:37:38,530 --> 01:37:36,020
don't want

2430
01:37:44,770 --> 01:37:38,540
us to

2431
01:37:48,410 --> 01:37:44,780
be at risk of violating the law or or

2432
01:37:50,629 --> 01:37:48,420
I don't want the intelligence agencies

2433
01:37:52,970 --> 01:37:50,639
to worry about the data that we collect

2434
01:37:54,709 --> 01:37:52,980
so I want us to do the job of

2435
01:37:58,129 --> 01:37:54,719
astronomers you know astronomers have

2436
01:38:00,350 --> 01:37:58,139
observing sites in remote locations in

2437
01:38:05,450 --> 01:38:00,360
places that are of no National Security

2438
01:38:08,570 --> 01:38:05,460
risk and I See This research project as

2439
01:38:10,970 --> 01:38:08,580
an astronomy project in fact the

2440
01:38:13,910 --> 01:38:10,980
administrator said Harvard asked me is

2441
01:38:15,590 --> 01:38:13,920
this part of your day job just as I was

2442
01:38:17,090 --> 01:38:15,600
about to establish the Galileo project

2443
01:38:19,910 --> 01:38:17,100
and I thought about it for a few hours

2444
01:38:22,010 --> 01:38:19,920
and then I said yes it is part of my day

2445
01:38:25,010 --> 01:38:22,020
job because in astronomy we use

2446
01:38:27,470 --> 01:38:25,020
telescopes to collect data and there is

2447
01:38:29,750 --> 01:38:27,480
no lower limit on the distance you know

2448
01:38:33,290 --> 01:38:29,760
we study the sun we study meteors we

2449
01:38:35,990 --> 01:38:33,300
study asteroids comets so

2450
01:38:38,030 --> 01:38:36,000
that's exactly what we do in the gorilla

2451
01:38:40,550 --> 01:38:38,040
project we use telescopes collect data

2452
01:38:43,850 --> 01:38:40,560
and interpret it so yes it is part of my

2453
01:38:45,530 --> 01:38:43,860
day job and Harvard University approved

2454
01:38:49,189 --> 01:38:45,540
of that and indeed it's a project

2455
01:38:51,250 --> 01:38:49,199
embraced by the university and the other

2456
01:38:53,930 --> 01:38:51,260
unusual thing about this project is

2457
01:38:56,470 --> 01:38:53,940
usually you have to work really hard to

2458
01:38:59,030 --> 01:38:56,480
get funded and in this case it was

2459
01:39:02,390 --> 01:38:59,040
individuals that gave me the money

2460
01:39:05,450 --> 01:39:02,400
without any fundraising effort on my

2461
01:39:07,910 --> 01:39:05,460
behalf which to me illustrates the fact

2462
01:39:09,950 --> 01:39:07,920
that the subject is of great interest to

2463
01:39:12,129 --> 01:39:09,960
the public it's of great interest to the

2464
01:39:14,990 --> 01:39:12,139
government as well

2465
01:39:16,669 --> 01:39:15,000
earlier you mentioned transmedium so

2466
01:39:18,590 --> 01:39:16,679
then I know you're an astronomer and so

2467
01:39:20,209 --> 01:39:18,600
you care about the sky but at some point

2468
01:39:21,470 --> 01:39:20,219
do you envision in the future it would

2469
01:39:23,810 --> 01:39:21,480
look for

2470
01:39:27,770 --> 01:39:23,820
unidentified submerged objects

2471
01:39:29,750 --> 01:39:27,780
well if we look at the Horizon you know

2472
01:39:32,330 --> 01:39:29,760
um and we are near the ocean and

2473
01:39:35,390 --> 01:39:32,340
definitely we will be near the ocean in

2474
01:39:38,090 --> 01:39:35,400
some of our observations simply because

2475
01:39:40,370 --> 01:39:38,100
there were a lot of reports on objects

2476
01:39:42,229 --> 01:39:40,380
near the ocean then we will be able to

2477
01:39:44,090 --> 01:39:42,239
see if they have anything to do with

2478
01:39:45,890 --> 01:39:44,100
coming out of the ocean going back to

2479
01:39:47,689 --> 01:39:45,900
the ocean or

2480
01:39:50,870 --> 01:39:47,699
um you know and and the same is true

2481
01:39:53,149 --> 01:39:50,880
about the them coming from outer space I

2482
01:39:55,310 --> 01:39:53,159
mean we know that's what meteors do okay

2483
01:39:58,669 --> 01:39:55,320
and this meteor that we discussed before

2484
01:40:01,729 --> 01:39:58,679
the interstellar meteor was discovered

2485
01:40:03,530 --> 01:40:01,739
by missile Warning Systems that the

2486
01:40:06,410 --> 01:40:03,540
government employs it was not

2487
01:40:08,510 --> 01:40:06,420
necessarily NASA it was Intelligence

2488
01:40:10,250 --> 01:40:08,520
agencies that are worried about National

2489
01:40:12,050 --> 01:40:10,260
Security they're monitoring any object

2490
01:40:13,910 --> 01:40:12,060
entering the sky because they worry

2491
01:40:15,649 --> 01:40:13,920
about ballistic missiles and you know

2492
01:40:18,470 --> 01:40:15,659
every now and then they see a rock

2493
01:40:20,390 --> 01:40:18,480
coming from out there and colliding with

2494
01:40:22,490 --> 01:40:20,400
Earth okay so that's called the meteor

2495
01:40:25,729 --> 01:40:22,500
and most of these rocks belong to the

2496
01:40:27,770 --> 01:40:25,739
solar system uh there are a thousand

2497
01:40:29,450 --> 01:40:27,780
times more rocks that belong to the

2498
01:40:31,910 --> 01:40:29,460
solar system than rocks that come from

2499
01:40:34,310 --> 01:40:31,920
outside the solar system based on the

2500
01:40:36,890 --> 01:40:34,320
statistics that we now know about

2501
01:40:38,390 --> 01:40:36,900
Interstellar objects so most of the time

2502
01:40:40,610 --> 01:40:38,400
you just see rocks from the solar system

2503
01:40:42,470 --> 01:40:40,620
these are leftover rocks from the

2504
01:40:44,270 --> 01:40:42,480
construction project of planets you know

2505
01:40:46,250 --> 01:40:44,280
that early on in the system there were

2506
01:40:48,530 --> 01:40:46,260
small rocks that came together to make

2507
01:40:50,209 --> 01:40:48,540
planets like the Earth and now some of

2508
01:40:52,610 --> 01:40:50,219
them are dispersed they are sort of like

2509
01:40:54,709 --> 01:40:52,620
Lego pieces that are filling up and so

2510
01:40:57,229 --> 01:40:54,719
they hit the Earth every now and then a

2511
01:40:59,330 --> 01:40:57,239
big chunk a big rock hit the earth you

2512
01:41:02,330 --> 01:40:59,340
know 66 million years ago and killed the

2513
01:41:05,149 --> 01:41:02,340
dinosaurs we know that uh the dinosaurs

2514
01:41:07,850 --> 01:41:05,159
did not have telescopes uh and they were

2515
01:41:10,850 --> 01:41:07,860
not smart enough to worry about the sky

2516
01:41:12,110 --> 01:41:10,860
they just ate grass were happy and

2517
01:41:14,450 --> 01:41:12,120
thought that they dominate their

2518
01:41:16,129 --> 01:41:14,460
environment well guess what they were

2519
01:41:18,830 --> 01:41:16,139
wiped out because they didn't have

2520
01:41:21,110 --> 01:41:18,840
telescopes and we as the human

2521
01:41:22,490 --> 01:41:21,120
civilization we are smarter so we

2522
01:41:25,010 --> 01:41:22,500
developed telescos we can look at

2523
01:41:27,890 --> 01:41:25,020
near-earth objects that's how omo and

2524
01:41:30,229 --> 01:41:27,900
was discovered it was identified as a

2525
01:41:32,629 --> 01:41:30,239
near-air object it was labeled that way

2526
01:41:34,729 --> 01:41:32,639
that's why they looked at it and then

2527
01:41:36,830 --> 01:41:34,739
they realized wow it moves too fast to

2528
01:41:39,830 --> 01:41:36,840
be bound to the Sun so this was an

2529
01:41:42,290 --> 01:41:39,840
Interstellar object so um what I'm

2530
01:41:44,209 --> 01:41:42,300
trying to say is the government uh you

2531
01:41:46,310 --> 01:41:44,219
know monitors the sky that's their day

2532
01:41:48,590 --> 01:41:46,320
job they're not doing it for the sake of

2533
01:41:50,390 --> 01:41:48,600
science their day job is to monitor the

2534
01:41:51,770 --> 01:41:50,400
sky for National Security every now and

2535
01:41:53,750 --> 01:41:51,780
then they see a rock entering the

2536
01:41:55,310 --> 01:41:53,760
atmosphere and then it turns out that

2537
01:41:58,310 --> 01:41:55,320
the first Interstellar meteor was

2538
01:42:01,729 --> 01:41:58,320
discovered by those government sensors

2539
01:42:04,250 --> 01:42:01,739
you see and uh and and

2540
01:42:06,530 --> 01:42:04,260
my point all along was the government

2541
01:42:08,689 --> 01:42:06,540
needs to know with very high Precision

2542
01:42:10,250 --> 01:42:08,699
how the object moves because they need

2543
01:42:11,689 --> 01:42:10,260
to know that if it's a ballistic missile

2544
01:42:14,629 --> 01:42:11,699
whether it would hit Boston or

2545
01:42:17,750 --> 01:42:14,639
Washington DC they need to know that so

2546
01:42:19,669 --> 01:42:17,760
what my colleagues were arguing was oh

2547
01:42:22,490 --> 01:42:19,679
the uncertainties in the measurements of

2548
01:42:24,350 --> 01:42:22,500
the government are very big and I say no

2549
01:42:27,290 --> 01:42:24,360
they cannot be big they cannot afford

2550
01:42:28,970 --> 01:42:27,300
that that's their day job and indeed the

2551
01:42:30,470 --> 01:42:28,980
government confirmed took three years

2552
01:42:34,129 --> 01:42:30,480
for the government to come out with a

2553
01:42:37,609 --> 01:42:34,139
letter saying indeed this meteor was at

2554
01:42:40,430 --> 01:42:37,619
the 99.99 from outside the solar system

2555
01:42:42,169 --> 01:42:40,440
so I never doubted that the fact that

2556
01:42:43,450 --> 01:42:42,179
the government has very high Precision

2557
01:42:47,390 --> 01:42:43,460
data

2558
01:42:48,770 --> 01:42:47,400
and they find these things actually you

2559
01:42:50,990 --> 01:42:48,780
know if you ask yourself

2560
01:42:53,870 --> 01:42:51,000
what's the you know what would be the

2561
01:42:56,570 --> 01:42:53,880
first sign of objects that visit near

2562
01:42:58,129 --> 01:42:56,580
Earth from outside the solar system or

2563
01:43:00,490 --> 01:42:58,139
objects that collide with Earth or

2564
01:43:02,689 --> 01:43:00,500
objects that enter the atmosphere

2565
01:43:04,669 --> 01:43:02,699
it's the government that would first

2566
01:43:07,790 --> 01:43:04,679
identify them because astronomers focus

2567
01:43:09,530 --> 01:43:07,800
on very distant sources of light and

2568
01:43:11,090 --> 01:43:09,540
they have narrow fields of view all the

2569
01:43:13,609 --> 01:43:11,100
astronomical observatories look at the

2570
01:43:15,470 --> 01:43:13,619
small portion of the sky from uh then if

2571
01:43:16,729 --> 01:43:15,480
a bird flies above the telescope they

2572
01:43:19,970 --> 01:43:16,739
just ignore it

2573
01:43:22,010 --> 01:43:19,980
so astronomers would be hard-pressed to

2574
01:43:23,750 --> 01:43:22,020
say oh in the survey that they did they

2575
01:43:25,550 --> 01:43:23,760
saw an object moving in an unusual way

2576
01:43:27,950 --> 01:43:25,560
in the Earth's atmosphere they were just

2577
01:43:30,250 --> 01:43:27,960
ignore it they focus on a Galaxy at the

2578
01:43:34,010 --> 01:43:30,260
relative of five or six so

2579
01:43:36,229 --> 01:43:34,020
but the military has to monitor those

2580
01:43:38,750 --> 01:43:36,239
things because that's their day job and

2581
01:43:40,370 --> 01:43:38,760
the intelligence agencies have so it's

2582
01:43:43,550 --> 01:43:40,380
completely

2583
01:43:47,090 --> 01:43:43,560
natural to expect the government and the

2584
01:43:49,189 --> 01:43:47,100
intention is to be the first to say here

2585
01:43:51,590 --> 01:43:49,199
are some unusual objects for us to

2586
01:43:52,970 --> 01:43:51,600
Monitor and that's what UAP are about

2587
01:43:56,510 --> 01:43:52,980
that's what the first Interstellar

2588
01:43:58,729 --> 01:43:56,520
meteor is about and you know we should

2589
01:44:00,950 --> 01:43:58,739
just be curious and examine those things

2590
01:44:02,750 --> 01:44:00,960
do you think that the main reason for

2591
01:44:04,910 --> 01:44:02,760
the government not coming forward with

2592
01:44:07,570 --> 01:44:04,920
more information on uaps or at least

2593
01:44:11,209 --> 01:44:07,580
more high resolution images is because

2594
01:44:12,590 --> 01:44:11,219
that it gives away their capabilities in

2595
01:44:14,270 --> 01:44:12,600
terms of sensors or is there another

2596
01:44:16,550 --> 01:44:14,280
reason like that's one of the reasons

2597
01:44:18,950 --> 01:44:16,560
but there may be a nefarious reason I

2598
01:44:21,770 --> 01:44:18,960
don't know I think that's uh that's the

2599
01:44:24,709 --> 01:44:21,780
main reason that would be my uh I don't

2600
01:44:27,050 --> 01:44:24,719
believe in conspiracies

2601
01:44:29,990 --> 01:44:27,060
um if I had to guess I would simply say

2602
01:44:32,750 --> 01:44:30,000
that they are unsure what the nature of

2603
01:44:34,430 --> 01:44:32,760
these objects is so there are two you

2604
01:44:37,310 --> 01:44:34,440
know two general possibilities either

2605
01:44:39,770 --> 01:44:37,320
they are made by an adversary with

2606
01:44:42,070 --> 01:44:39,780
technologies that we never imagined okay

2607
01:44:44,209 --> 01:44:42,080
in which case you want to keep

2608
01:44:46,790 --> 01:44:44,219
collecting data you don't want to

2609
01:44:49,609 --> 01:44:46,800
release what you know uh

2610
01:44:53,990 --> 01:44:49,619
in the second possibility you know it

2611
01:44:55,970 --> 01:44:54,000
may be of extraterrestrial origin uh and

2612
01:44:58,490 --> 01:44:55,980
you say to yourself that's not part of

2613
01:45:02,169 --> 01:44:58,500
my day job you know and I don't want to

2614
01:45:05,330 --> 01:45:02,179
release the data because it may reveal

2615
01:45:07,430 --> 01:45:05,340
our abilities to identify objects like

2616
01:45:09,649 --> 01:45:07,440
if it's a high resolution image then Any

2617
01:45:11,450 --> 01:45:09,659
Nation worldwide would know that we can

2618
01:45:13,790 --> 01:45:11,460
obtain very high resolution images of

2619
01:45:16,310 --> 01:45:13,800
this of this quality so you don't you

2620
01:45:18,109 --> 01:45:16,320
don't show it publicly okay so I would

2621
01:45:19,550 --> 01:45:18,119
say it's more the fact that the

2622
01:45:22,250 --> 01:45:19,560
government is not a scientific

2623
01:45:25,010 --> 01:45:22,260
organization it's not

2624
01:45:26,689 --> 01:45:25,020
interested in

2625
01:45:28,129 --> 01:45:26,699
questions that go beyond National

2626
01:45:31,310 --> 01:45:28,139
Security the safety of military

2627
01:45:33,350 --> 01:45:31,320
personnel so if you see an object that

2628
01:45:36,050 --> 01:45:33,360
doesn't belong to that category it's not

2629
01:45:38,689 --> 01:45:36,060
part of your job uh and and the second

2630
01:45:41,390 --> 01:45:38,699
is uh you know you don't want to reveal

2631
01:45:43,790 --> 01:45:41,400
the capabilities you have and then there

2632
01:45:47,209 --> 01:45:43,800
is also this um what you mentioned

2633
01:45:49,609 --> 01:45:47,219
before there is this stigma uh in

2634
01:45:52,910 --> 01:45:49,619
society about discussing such things

2635
01:45:55,490 --> 01:45:52,920
because it's being ridiculed okay and

2636
01:45:57,470 --> 01:45:55,500
the the data that existed in the past

2637
01:45:59,450 --> 01:45:57,480
was perhaps not of high enough quality

2638
01:46:01,370 --> 01:45:59,460
so people could not really discuss it

2639
01:46:05,390 --> 01:46:01,380
seriously but now we have

2640
01:46:07,189 --> 01:46:05,400
instrumentation that is so good that the

2641
01:46:09,890 --> 01:46:07,199
government just can't ignore these

2642
01:46:12,530 --> 01:46:09,900
objects that's why the subject surfaced

2643
01:46:14,689 --> 01:46:12,540
in the past five years I think partly

2644
01:46:17,990 --> 01:46:14,699
because the instrumentation that gives

2645
01:46:20,090 --> 01:46:18,000
us the data is of high quality so the

2646
01:46:24,310 --> 01:46:20,100
government cannot say forget about it

2647
01:46:27,169 --> 01:46:24,320
cannot say you know the stigma

2648
01:46:30,169 --> 01:46:27,179
should uh

2649
01:46:32,629 --> 01:46:30,179
suppress any discussion on this and and

2650
01:46:34,910 --> 01:46:32,639
so the the subject is is surfacing up

2651
01:46:37,669 --> 01:46:34,920
yet the government cannot release the

2652
01:46:40,669 --> 01:46:37,679
the high quality data so I you know it's

2653
01:46:43,550 --> 01:46:40,679
just like um the play by Samuel Beckett

2654
01:46:45,890 --> 01:46:43,560
you could wait for Godot but you might

2655
01:46:48,590 --> 01:46:45,900
wait forever I I don't believe that the

2656
01:46:51,649 --> 01:46:48,600
data will be Declassified anytime soon

2657
01:46:53,390 --> 01:46:51,659
so we better collect our own data uh

2658
01:46:55,430 --> 01:46:53,400
scientists and try to analyze it that's

2659
01:46:57,410 --> 01:46:55,440
what the Galileo project is trying

2660
01:47:00,770 --> 01:46:57,420
when I think about how would I do the

2661
01:47:03,410 --> 01:47:00,780
Galileo project the main hubris Lee the

2662
01:47:05,450 --> 01:47:03,420
main problem that I see for analyzing

2663
01:47:07,430 --> 01:47:05,460
regular uaps when I say regular I mean

2664
01:47:09,350 --> 01:47:07,440
the ones that are in the popular media

2665
01:47:11,510 --> 01:47:09,360
and much of the audience is aware of

2666
01:47:13,550 --> 01:47:11,520
those types of tic tac types is that

2667
01:47:18,050 --> 01:47:13,560
they don't show themselves customarily

2668
01:47:19,729 --> 01:47:18,060
it's not repeatable so how and I imagine

2669
01:47:21,050 --> 01:47:19,739
that the third phase remember we talked

2670
01:47:22,790 --> 01:47:21,060
about these different pillars so first

2671
01:47:25,129 --> 01:47:22,800
was Papua New Guinea second was the

2672
01:47:26,570 --> 01:47:25,139
James Webb slash the Chilean Observatory

2673
01:47:28,790 --> 01:47:26,580
and the third was the Harvard

2674
01:47:31,729 --> 01:47:28,800
Observatory I imagine that the third one

2675
01:47:35,209 --> 01:47:31,739
is more aligned with the uaps as we

2676
01:47:36,590 --> 01:47:35,219
traditionally know them okay so did you

2677
01:47:38,570 --> 01:47:36,600
choose to place it at Harvard simply

2678
01:47:40,250 --> 01:47:38,580
because well that's what the funding can

2679
01:47:42,290 --> 01:47:40,260
provide and you're close to it or is

2680
01:47:44,570 --> 01:47:42,300
there some other reason oh no no it was

2681
01:47:46,370 --> 01:47:44,580
just just for testing the equipment uh

2682
01:47:48,050 --> 01:47:46,380
that's just a testing phase to make sure

2683
01:47:49,850 --> 01:47:48,060
that it operates and then within a few

2684
01:47:52,490 --> 01:47:49,860
months we'll put it in location that is

2685
01:47:54,229 --> 01:47:52,500
much better the reason we just kept it

2686
01:47:55,729 --> 01:47:54,239
close to home because we want to make

2687
01:48:00,590 --> 01:47:55,739
sure that it works

2688
01:48:02,870 --> 01:48:00,600
uh to our specifications uh now I should

2689
01:48:05,209 --> 01:48:02,880
make a comment because I wrote an essay

2690
01:48:07,550 --> 01:48:05,219
about it in medium by the way every few

2691
01:48:09,709 --> 01:48:07,560
days I I write in medium so people who

2692
01:48:11,810 --> 01:48:09,719
are interested should check it out yeah

2693
01:48:14,030 --> 01:48:11,820
I don't know how you get the time you're

2694
01:48:16,370 --> 01:48:14,040
so prolific you do so many podcasts so

2695
01:48:18,830 --> 01:48:16,380
many news broadcasts your professor your

2696
01:48:21,350 --> 01:48:18,840
chair on top you're running the Galileo

2697
01:48:22,910 --> 01:48:21,360
project you do the medium post for me to

2698
01:48:26,270 --> 01:48:22,920
write each day

2699
01:48:28,790 --> 01:48:26,280
is a laborious excruciating task let

2700
01:48:31,370 --> 01:48:28,800
alone to do what else I have to do well

2701
01:48:33,129 --> 01:48:31,380
you know it's what I do all the time and

2702
01:48:36,109 --> 01:48:33,139
your father

2703
01:48:38,709 --> 01:48:36,119
yeah but I should say that it's very

2704
01:48:42,830 --> 01:48:38,719
rewarding because for example

2705
01:48:45,950 --> 01:48:42,840
just today I was notified that the

2706
01:48:51,550 --> 01:48:45,960
Venice Film Festival will feature

2707
01:48:54,010 --> 01:48:51,560
um a competition of 23 projects by uh

2708
01:48:56,330 --> 01:48:54,020
film students

2709
01:49:00,669 --> 01:48:56,340
study uh

2710
01:49:04,250 --> 01:49:00,679
um film and and basically created uh

2711
01:49:05,830 --> 01:49:04,260
works that were inspired by my book

2712
01:49:09,350 --> 01:49:05,840
about

2713
01:49:12,109 --> 01:49:09,360
extraterrestrial and uh that that book

2714
01:49:14,990 --> 01:49:12,119
was translated to 25 languages including

2715
01:49:16,729 --> 01:49:15,000
Italian so that's what inspired this

2716
01:49:19,250 --> 01:49:16,739
competition and they selected the top

2717
01:49:22,609 --> 01:49:19,260
three and they would feature them at the

2718
01:49:27,109 --> 01:49:22,619
Excelsior hotel in Venice Italy on the

2719
01:49:29,390 --> 01:49:27,119
third of September this weekend and they

2720
01:49:31,370 --> 01:49:29,400
would like to ask me questions about my

2721
01:49:33,229 --> 01:49:31,380
book and about tomorrow so what I'm

2722
01:49:34,790 --> 01:49:33,239
trying to say is that there is a huge

2723
01:49:37,370 --> 01:49:34,800
Community out there

2724
01:49:40,609 --> 01:49:37,380
here you have 23

2725
01:49:43,250 --> 01:49:40,619
students of film that worked hard to

2726
01:49:44,930 --> 01:49:43,260
make these projects and competed for the

2727
01:49:48,770 --> 01:49:44,940
Venice Film Festival I was not even

2728
01:49:51,770 --> 01:49:48,780
aware of that and every day I get a a

2729
01:49:53,750 --> 01:49:51,780
huge number of emails from people who

2730
01:49:56,870 --> 01:49:53,760
donate to the gorilla project who are

2731
01:50:00,649 --> 01:49:56,880
inspired by at the same time there are

2732
01:50:05,030 --> 01:50:00,659
of course people who ridicule and you

2733
01:50:08,390 --> 01:50:05,040
know just dismiss the work uh but you

2734
01:50:12,350 --> 01:50:08,400
know as long as you have the right idea

2735
01:50:15,229 --> 01:50:12,360
that uh to pursue the truth you know no

2736
01:50:17,270 --> 01:50:15,239
prison can confine your passion so to

2737
01:50:20,689 --> 01:50:17,280
speak and you know that was the lesson

2738
01:50:22,430 --> 01:50:20,699
from Nelson Mandela who for several

2739
01:50:24,350 --> 01:50:22,440
decades was put in prison but eventually

2740
01:50:26,810 --> 01:50:24,360
became the first black president of

2741
01:50:30,290 --> 01:50:26,820
South Africa and so you just have to

2742
01:50:34,070 --> 01:50:30,300
keep dreaming and as long as your dream

2743
01:50:38,330 --> 01:50:34,080
is real it will eventually materialize

2744
01:50:40,250 --> 01:50:38,340
and so I I I feel inspired by the

2745
01:50:43,310 --> 01:50:40,260
response of people now what I wanted to

2746
01:50:45,229 --> 01:50:43,320
mention about my essay it was about the

2747
01:50:46,850 --> 01:50:45,239
fact that you know there are two types

2748
01:50:48,709 --> 01:50:46,860
of interstellar objects you can imagine

2749
01:50:50,990 --> 01:50:48,719
that there are objects are not

2750
01:50:53,870 --> 01:50:51,000
functional anymore for example imagine

2751
01:50:56,149 --> 01:50:53,880
New Horizons the spacecraft that we sent

2752
01:50:58,070 --> 01:50:56,159
out of the solar system a billion years

2753
01:51:00,350 --> 01:50:58,080
from now it will not be functional it

2754
01:51:02,510 --> 01:51:00,360
will be just space trash so you can

2755
01:51:04,970 --> 01:51:02,520
imagine Space trash and perhaps the

2756
01:51:08,810 --> 01:51:04,980
meteor that collided with Earth in 2014

2757
01:51:11,090 --> 01:51:08,820
was just Space trash okay the second

2758
01:51:13,250 --> 01:51:11,100
type are objects that are functional

2759
01:51:15,050 --> 01:51:13,260
perhaps equipped with artificial

2760
01:51:17,030 --> 01:51:15,060
intelligence so they have some

2761
01:51:19,430 --> 01:51:17,040
intelligence machine learning

2762
01:51:21,010 --> 01:51:19,440
if that's the case for example if you

2763
01:51:25,430 --> 01:51:21,020
have an AI

2764
01:51:27,850 --> 01:51:25,440
astronaut and AI system that is sentient

2765
01:51:31,850 --> 01:51:27,860
you know we are getting close to

2766
01:51:35,450 --> 01:51:31,860
producing sentient AI systems perhaps

2767
01:51:37,370 --> 01:51:35,460
within the coming decade okay uh so

2768
01:51:39,950 --> 01:51:37,380
imagine another civilization that had

2769
01:51:41,990 --> 01:51:39,960
the benefit of you know thousands of

2770
01:51:44,810 --> 01:51:42,000
more years of Technology development so

2771
01:51:46,609 --> 01:51:44,820
they developed these sentient AI systems

2772
01:51:48,169 --> 01:51:46,619
and one of them came to visit us or a

2773
01:51:49,970 --> 01:51:48,179
few of them and they might be

2774
01:51:52,430 --> 01:51:49,980
self-replicated

2775
01:51:55,850 --> 01:51:52,440
just like biological systems because

2776
01:51:59,830 --> 01:51:55,860
they have 3D printers anyway if the UAP

2777
01:52:02,689 --> 01:51:59,840
if let's say one UAP is of that nature

2778
01:52:04,629 --> 01:52:02,699
uh then dealing with it will not be the

2779
01:52:08,149 --> 01:52:04,639
same as dealing with a dark matter or

2780
01:52:10,609 --> 01:52:08,159
dealing with a planet or dealing with a

2781
01:52:13,430 --> 01:52:10,619
star like the sun why because all these

2782
01:52:14,990 --> 01:52:13,440
other things are passive physical

2783
01:52:17,450 --> 01:52:15,000
objects

2784
01:52:19,790 --> 01:52:17,460
that do not have intelligence you know

2785
01:52:22,790 --> 01:52:19,800
the the Sun the intelligence the

2786
01:52:24,770 --> 01:52:22,800
electron doesn't have so they do

2787
01:52:27,890 --> 01:52:24,780
whatever they do you can design a set of

2788
01:52:29,750 --> 01:52:27,900
rules or the physical laws that you can

2789
01:52:31,729 --> 01:52:29,760
quantify with equations like quantum

2790
01:52:33,950 --> 01:52:31,739
mechanics that describe the motion of an

2791
01:52:36,189 --> 01:52:33,960
electron that describe the motion of an

2792
01:52:39,590 --> 01:52:36,199
atom that describe the motion of a star

2793
01:52:42,770 --> 01:52:39,600
but there is no free will associated

2794
01:52:45,410 --> 01:52:42,780
with the sentient being there is no

2795
01:52:48,770 --> 01:52:45,420
consciousness associated with a sentient

2796
01:52:49,850 --> 01:52:48,780
being but if you have a sentient AI

2797
01:52:53,450 --> 01:52:49,860
system

2798
01:52:55,490 --> 01:52:53,460
it's a different type of object it's an

2799
01:52:58,310 --> 01:52:55,500
object that responds to the way you

2800
01:53:00,350 --> 01:52:58,320
behave just like humans respond to the

2801
01:53:03,530 --> 01:53:00,360
way you behave so it's just like dealing

2802
01:53:07,010 --> 01:53:03,540
with humans so if you think about it uh

2803
01:53:09,410 --> 01:53:07,020
if we were to deal with sentient AI

2804
01:53:11,209 --> 01:53:09,420
systems that come from another planet

2805
01:53:14,090 --> 01:53:11,219
from another civilization

2806
01:53:16,370 --> 01:53:14,100
who would be best equipped to deal with

2807
01:53:19,070 --> 01:53:16,380
them would it be physicists

2808
01:53:21,649 --> 01:53:19,080
my answer is no because physics are used

2809
01:53:23,629 --> 01:53:21,659
to dealing with passive physical

2810
01:53:25,390 --> 01:53:23,639
entities

2811
01:53:27,709 --> 01:53:25,400
the best

2812
01:53:30,290 --> 01:53:27,719
professionals to deal with those things

2813
01:53:34,430 --> 01:53:30,300
would be psychologists they're used to

2814
01:53:38,450 --> 01:53:34,440
dealing with sentient systems humans

2815
01:53:40,729 --> 01:53:38,460
and if the thing about sentient beings

2816
01:53:43,010 --> 01:53:40,739
is that they don't always follow what

2817
01:53:44,689 --> 01:53:43,020
they don't repeat they they are not

2818
01:53:46,970 --> 01:53:44,699
necessarily reproducible they might do

2819
01:53:51,050 --> 01:53:46,980
Under the same circumstances different

2820
01:53:52,910 --> 01:53:51,060
things they also digest the data of

2821
01:53:55,310 --> 01:53:52,920
their encounter with you in a way that

2822
01:53:57,609 --> 01:53:55,320
will make the next encounter different

2823
01:54:00,770 --> 01:53:57,619
and so it's a completely different

2824
01:54:02,750 --> 01:54:00,780
entity Than Physical objects that behave

2825
01:54:04,550 --> 01:54:02,760
always following the laws of physics the

2826
01:54:06,649 --> 01:54:04,560
same way and they are predictable there

2827
01:54:09,590 --> 01:54:06,659
are producible and so forth so my point

2828
01:54:12,770 --> 01:54:09,600
is if we have the privilege of

2829
01:54:15,169 --> 01:54:12,780
interacting with sentient

2830
01:54:17,590 --> 01:54:15,179
AI systems that came from another planet

2831
01:54:20,750 --> 01:54:17,600
we have to use a different methodology

2832
01:54:23,149 --> 01:54:20,760
than traditional physics

2833
01:54:25,609 --> 01:54:23,159
and that touches on the point that you

2834
01:54:27,410 --> 01:54:25,619
brought up that's extremely extremely

2835
01:54:29,570 --> 01:54:27,420
interesting so how the heck does that

2836
01:54:31,250 --> 01:54:29,580
work would we have to invent a

2837
01:54:32,810 --> 01:54:31,260
fundamentally different science because

2838
01:54:34,370 --> 01:54:32,820
like you mentioned science generally at

2839
01:54:36,649 --> 01:54:34,380
least in physics chemistry and so on

2840
01:54:38,090 --> 01:54:36,659
it's indifferent what we study now of

2841
01:54:39,410 --> 01:54:38,100
course there's the observer effect and

2842
01:54:41,570 --> 01:54:39,420
well but that's predictable

2843
01:54:43,490 --> 01:54:41,580
mathematically whereas what you're

2844
01:54:46,629 --> 01:54:43,500
saying is that if it's sentient maybe

2845
01:54:49,810 --> 01:54:46,639
large Trends would be predictable though

2846
01:54:52,550 --> 01:54:49,820
there might be but only if

2847
01:54:54,830 --> 01:54:52,560
it depends how intelligent the system is

2848
01:54:57,169 --> 01:54:54,840
you see because the more intelligent it

2849
01:54:59,330 --> 01:54:57,179
is the more complexities the more

2850
01:55:00,830 --> 01:54:59,340
difficult it is for us to forecast what

2851
01:55:04,070 --> 01:55:00,840
it will do it would look like free will

2852
01:55:05,689 --> 01:55:04,080
in a way and the system will do very

2853
01:55:10,010 --> 01:55:05,699
different things on different encounters

2854
01:55:13,070 --> 01:55:10,020
so I call that in my commentary in my

2855
01:55:14,810 --> 01:55:13,080
essay on medium I call it uh

2856
01:55:17,990 --> 01:55:14,820
Interstellar

2857
01:55:20,270 --> 01:55:18,000
psychology so it's the it's a new field

2858
01:55:24,169 --> 01:55:20,280
we're not dealing with humans you know

2859
01:55:25,729 --> 01:55:24,179
humans are difficult to forecast and

2860
01:55:28,370 --> 01:55:25,739
that's why psychology is a difficult

2861
01:55:31,790 --> 01:55:28,380
subject more more difficult than physics

2862
01:55:33,830 --> 01:55:31,800
I would argue uh and then if you deal

2863
01:55:37,189 --> 01:55:33,840
with the next level you know once we

2864
01:55:40,070 --> 01:55:37,199
develop sentient AI systems you know it

2865
01:55:41,750 --> 01:55:40,080
will become a new subject of you know in

2866
01:55:45,169 --> 01:55:41,760
universities I think there would be new

2867
01:55:48,050 --> 01:55:45,179
departments that analyze AI systems

2868
01:55:51,470 --> 01:55:48,060
because why would we focus only on

2869
01:55:53,330 --> 01:55:51,480
humans if AI systems are more complex we

2870
01:55:56,450 --> 01:55:53,340
need a whole new

2871
01:55:59,930 --> 01:55:56,460
area of research that tries to interpret

2872
01:56:02,629 --> 01:55:59,940
the way AI systems behave now you might

2873
01:56:05,629 --> 01:56:02,639
say oh we we constructed those AI

2874
01:56:07,669 --> 01:56:05,639
systems out of Hardware right we built

2875
01:56:11,330 --> 01:56:07,679
those computers that behave in this way

2876
01:56:14,450 --> 01:56:11,340
well we also construct human beings you

2877
01:56:17,689 --> 01:56:14,460
know like we give them birth right in

2878
01:56:20,030 --> 01:56:17,699
the womb out of a sperm and egg we know

2879
01:56:22,129 --> 01:56:20,040
the physical constituents that were put

2880
01:56:24,649 --> 01:56:22,139
together to make a human being okay

2881
01:56:27,229 --> 01:56:24,659
that's called birth of a human we see it

2882
01:56:30,070 --> 01:56:27,239
in hospitals all the time but that

2883
01:56:31,790 --> 01:56:30,080
doesn't mean that we understand humans

2884
01:56:33,410 --> 01:56:31,800
psychologists have a hard time

2885
01:56:36,830 --> 01:56:33,420
understanding even though we know the

2886
01:56:39,109 --> 01:56:36,840
material used to make them

2887
01:56:41,570 --> 01:56:39,119
that we can understand the emergent

2888
01:56:44,030 --> 01:56:41,580
phenomena so we give them names we give

2889
01:56:46,609 --> 01:56:44,040
the name of free will that to the fact

2890
01:56:48,109 --> 01:56:46,619
that we you know we cannot forecast how

2891
01:56:51,050 --> 01:56:48,119
a person will behave under some

2892
01:56:53,689 --> 01:56:51,060
circumstances we gave this term of

2893
01:56:55,910 --> 01:56:53,699
Consciousness uh so all kinds of

2894
01:56:58,729 --> 01:56:55,920
emergent phenomena that are at the

2895
01:57:01,189 --> 01:56:58,739
abstract level just the signature of

2896
01:57:03,169 --> 01:57:01,199
complexity of the system that you know

2897
01:57:04,910 --> 01:57:03,179
you can't just start from the atoms that

2898
01:57:06,649 --> 01:57:04,920
make the system and figure out all these

2899
01:57:08,750 --> 01:57:06,659
emergent phenomena because the system is

2900
01:57:10,430 --> 01:57:08,760
very complex I mean you can do it if you

2901
01:57:12,709 --> 01:57:10,440
put two atoms together you can figure

2902
01:57:15,169 --> 01:57:12,719
out how the molecule will behave but

2903
01:57:17,510 --> 01:57:15,179
once you make a sufficiently complex

2904
01:57:19,550 --> 01:57:17,520
molecule even the best computers might

2905
01:57:21,530 --> 01:57:19,560
not be able to figure out what what it

2906
01:57:24,649 --> 01:57:21,540
does and and you know building up

2907
01:57:26,930 --> 01:57:24,659
biological systems is like building a

2908
01:57:28,430 --> 01:57:26,940
very complex system that we can't really

2909
01:57:30,589 --> 01:57:28,440
tell what it would do under some

2910
01:57:32,870 --> 01:57:30,599
circumstances and especially after it's

2911
01:57:35,510 --> 01:57:32,880
exposed to a lot of experiences so it's

2912
01:57:38,390 --> 01:57:35,520
not just nature it's also nurture so all

2913
01:57:39,950 --> 01:57:38,400
of these boils to to the point that you

2914
01:57:42,550 --> 01:57:39,960
know there might be new departments in

2915
01:57:45,589 --> 01:57:42,560
universities about

2916
01:57:48,709 --> 01:57:45,599
analyzing AI systems in the future once

2917
01:57:50,990 --> 01:57:48,719
they become sentient and I can imagine

2918
01:57:52,729 --> 01:57:51,000
the same with AI systems that came from

2919
01:57:55,430 --> 01:57:52,739
other civilizations

2920
01:57:57,770 --> 01:57:55,440
I want to read a this is on point I want

2921
01:57:59,689 --> 01:57:57,780
to read a quote from your blog it said

2922
01:58:01,790 --> 01:57:59,699
most recently Congress expanded the

2923
01:58:04,310 --> 01:58:01,800
definition of UAP to include transmedium

2924
01:58:06,470 --> 01:58:04,320
objects that are observed to transition

2925
01:58:08,390 --> 01:58:06,480
between space and atmosphere and bodies

2926
01:58:10,490 --> 01:58:08,400
of water an object means it

2927
01:58:12,410 --> 01:58:10,500
quote-unquote whereas a sufficiently

2928
01:58:14,930 --> 01:58:12,420
advanced AI device could potentially

2929
01:58:16,430 --> 01:58:14,940
become a u in bubbers terminology or

2930
01:58:18,830 --> 01:58:16,440
boobers I don't know how to pronounce it

2931
01:58:20,270 --> 01:58:18,840
the name so if you don't mind because I

2932
01:58:22,189 --> 01:58:20,280
I still have other questions like about

2933
01:58:23,629 --> 01:58:22,199
ce5 and so the audience would love to

2934
01:58:25,310 --> 01:58:23,639
hear about that if you don't mind can

2935
01:58:28,970 --> 01:58:25,320
you quickly spell out this distinction

2936
01:58:32,750 --> 01:58:28,980
between it versus you yeah so exactly a

2937
01:58:35,450 --> 01:58:32,760
century ago 1923 Martin buber a

2938
01:58:37,910 --> 01:58:35,460
philosopher and theologian made a

2939
01:58:40,189 --> 01:58:37,920
distinction between two interactions

2940
01:58:43,310 --> 01:58:40,199
that humans have you can have an

2941
01:58:47,870 --> 01:58:43,320
interaction with an object okay like a a

2942
01:58:50,689 --> 01:58:47,880
cup of tea or a ball that's a subject

2943
01:58:53,390 --> 01:58:50,699
object interaction it's an I eat

2944
01:58:56,270 --> 01:58:53,400
interaction it's an interaction with

2945
01:58:59,209 --> 01:58:56,280
uh but he also identified another type

2946
01:59:01,189 --> 01:58:59,219
of interaction with something that goes

2947
01:59:03,070 --> 01:59:01,199
beyond physical objects like an

2948
01:59:06,770 --> 01:59:03,080
interaction with a human being

2949
01:59:09,649 --> 01:59:06,780
or since he was religious he also

2950
01:59:14,270 --> 01:59:09,659
included interaction with God and God

2951
01:59:16,729 --> 01:59:14,280
represented the Eternal you uh but even

2952
01:59:18,290 --> 01:59:16,739
if you're secular you know you have

2953
01:59:20,629 --> 01:59:18,300
interactions with people

2954
01:59:21,950 --> 01:59:20,639
if you are a real person and you know

2955
01:59:25,189 --> 01:59:21,960
that it's different from an interaction

2956
01:59:27,890 --> 01:59:25,199
with an object so buber made the

2957
01:59:31,850 --> 01:59:27,900
distinction and that was the foundation

2958
01:59:33,890 --> 01:59:31,860
for uh you know many aspects of psycho

2959
01:59:37,330 --> 01:59:33,900
modern psychology and philosophy and so

2960
01:59:40,729 --> 01:59:37,340
forth and he was an existentialist

2961
01:59:44,450 --> 01:59:40,739
one of the founders of existentialism

2962
01:59:46,390 --> 01:59:44,460
and and so his Innovation was to this

2963
01:59:50,330 --> 01:59:46,400
distinguish between these two

2964
01:59:53,930 --> 01:59:50,340
interactions of human and what I said is

2965
01:59:57,050 --> 01:59:53,940
that we are used to associating you with

2966
01:59:58,550 --> 01:59:57,060
humans but in the future it could be AI

2967
02:00:01,129 --> 01:59:58,560
systems that are sufficiently

2968
02:00:03,830 --> 02:00:01,139
intelligent that are sent in and

2969
02:00:05,270 --> 02:00:03,840
moreover it could represent our

2970
02:00:08,410 --> 02:00:05,280
interaction with

2971
02:00:11,270 --> 02:00:08,420
and extraterrestrial astronaut

2972
02:00:13,250 --> 02:00:11,280
now is this to suggest that the craft

2973
02:00:14,689 --> 02:00:13,260
themselves may be sentient or conscious

2974
02:00:16,250 --> 02:00:14,699
and I'm unsure if you make a distinction

2975
02:00:18,470 --> 02:00:16,260
between sentience and Consciousness or

2976
02:00:21,649 --> 02:00:18,480
if you use those interchangeably oh I to

2977
02:00:23,629 --> 02:00:21,659
me it's just um uh you know it's the the

2978
02:00:25,669 --> 02:00:23,639
definition is similar to the touring

2979
02:00:28,189 --> 02:00:25,679
test okay in the context of computers

2980
02:00:31,070 --> 02:00:28,199
the Turing test that was defined you

2981
02:00:34,070 --> 02:00:31,080
know about 70 something years ago by

2982
02:00:35,930 --> 02:00:34,080
Alan Turing uh is let's let's think

2983
02:00:38,209 --> 02:00:35,940
about it on a practical level if you

2984
02:00:40,430 --> 02:00:38,219
take a lot of people that interact with

2985
02:00:42,589 --> 02:00:40,440
a computer and they cannot tell the

2986
02:00:44,810 --> 02:00:42,599
difference between the uh the computer

2987
02:00:48,050 --> 02:00:44,820
being a computer you put it behind the

2988
02:00:49,669 --> 02:00:48,060
curtain uh they cannot by by conversing

2989
02:00:52,669 --> 02:00:49,679
with that computer they can't tell the

2990
02:00:55,070 --> 02:00:52,679
difference between the computer or a

2991
02:00:57,830 --> 02:00:55,080
person then for all practical matters

2992
02:01:00,290 --> 02:00:57,840
you know uh it's an it's an interaction

2993
02:01:03,290 --> 02:01:00,300
with a you not with an it

2994
02:01:07,609 --> 02:01:03,300
in my definition I mean echoing what

2995
02:01:10,189 --> 02:01:07,619
buber said uh and so uh to me it's all

2996
02:01:13,370 --> 02:01:10,199
about the Practical experience of humans

2997
02:01:15,350 --> 02:01:13,380
with the system now those things that

2998
02:01:17,830 --> 02:01:15,360
come from outer space may be far more

2999
02:01:20,030 --> 02:01:17,840
advanced than any AI system we develop

3000
02:01:22,310 --> 02:01:20,040
and so they might be even more

3001
02:01:25,550 --> 02:01:22,320
sophisticated they might understand us

3002
02:01:28,729 --> 02:01:25,560
the way that a biker that goes you know

3003
02:01:31,970 --> 02:01:28,739
on the sidewalk understand ants next to

3004
02:01:34,550 --> 02:01:31,980
to it to the bike and the Ants may think

3005
02:01:36,530 --> 02:01:34,560
oh here is a biker let's think about the

3006
02:01:39,169 --> 02:01:36,540
protocol of how to engage with a biker

3007
02:01:41,390 --> 02:01:39,179
but the ants would never realize that

3008
02:01:45,129 --> 02:01:41,400
the bicare cares less about what they do

3009
02:01:48,970 --> 02:01:45,139
and the biker is a much more you know

3010
02:01:52,129 --> 02:01:48,980
Superior level of intelligence

3011
02:01:53,990 --> 02:01:52,139
so it's possible that we would encounter

3012
02:01:56,149 --> 02:01:54,000
something that is far more Superior than

3013
02:01:58,810 --> 02:01:56,159
us and it will not be biological because

3014
02:02:01,250 --> 02:01:58,820
traveling across distances between stars

3015
02:02:03,669 --> 02:02:01,260
is not something that a biological

3016
02:02:06,530 --> 02:02:03,679
creature can easily do I mean we were

3017
02:02:09,109 --> 02:02:06,540
selected by Natural Evolution to survive

3018
02:02:11,209 --> 02:02:09,119
on this rock that we call Earth we were

3019
02:02:13,910 --> 02:02:11,219
not selected to survive the Hazardous

3020
02:02:15,770 --> 02:02:13,920
conditions of space so so if I had to

3021
02:02:17,270 --> 02:02:15,780
imagine I would say the first probes

3022
02:02:20,089 --> 02:02:17,280
that we will discover that would be

3023
02:02:23,450 --> 02:02:20,099
sentient would be you know made of

3024
02:02:25,250 --> 02:02:23,460
electronics Hardware something else that

3025
02:02:27,350 --> 02:02:25,260
is not biological because that can

3026
02:02:29,149 --> 02:02:27,360
survive long Journeys they would have

3027
02:02:31,609 --> 02:02:29,159
the patience for millions of years to

3028
02:02:36,709 --> 02:02:31,619
travel they would not they could repair

3029
02:02:37,910 --> 02:02:36,719
themselves if hit by cosmic rays or they

3030
02:02:40,570 --> 02:02:37,920
can adapt to changing physical

3031
02:02:43,550 --> 02:02:40,580
circumstances much more they don't need

3032
02:02:45,770 --> 02:02:43,560
food they just need energy that they can

3033
02:02:47,750 --> 02:02:45,780
collect from their interaction with

3034
02:02:51,470 --> 02:02:47,760
Starlight with with industrial medium

3035
02:02:53,589 --> 02:02:51,480
and so forth so anyway my guess is if we

3036
02:02:56,149 --> 02:02:53,599
find sentient

3037
02:02:59,750 --> 02:02:56,159
Messengers from other civilizations they

3038
02:03:02,510 --> 02:02:59,760
would be equipment that is artificial

3039
02:03:04,129 --> 02:03:02,520
with artificial intelligence and it may

3040
02:03:06,410 --> 02:03:04,139
be superior to us and it will be an

3041
02:03:08,709 --> 02:03:06,420
interaction with the you it might even

3042
02:03:13,910 --> 02:03:08,719
be interaction with what we may regard

3043
02:03:16,970 --> 02:03:13,920
as a Divine entity because in my

3044
02:03:20,270 --> 02:03:16,980
way of thinking uh a sufficiently

3045
02:03:22,790 --> 02:03:20,280
advanced scientific civilization is a

3046
02:03:25,550 --> 02:03:22,800
good approximation to God it can do

3047
02:03:27,709 --> 02:03:25,560
magic it may be able to create life in

3048
02:03:29,270 --> 02:03:27,719
the laboratory may be able to create a

3049
02:03:33,290 --> 02:03:29,280
baby Universe in the laboratory if it

3050
02:03:36,109 --> 02:03:33,300
understands quantum gravity so what we

3051
02:03:38,990 --> 02:03:36,119
call God in philosophical texts

3052
02:03:41,689 --> 02:03:39,000
religious texts might be represented the

3053
02:03:44,990 --> 02:03:41,699
best approximation to it might be a far

3054
02:03:47,330 --> 02:03:45,000
more advanced scientific Gadget

3055
02:03:50,629 --> 02:03:47,340
compared to what we have right now

3056
02:03:52,790 --> 02:03:50,639
when we spoke I asked you about ce5 you

3057
02:03:54,649 --> 02:03:52,800
remember yeah yes okay so did you have a

3058
02:03:57,649 --> 02:03:54,659
chance to look into that

3059
02:04:00,530 --> 02:03:57,659
uh yeah I did look at that

3060
02:04:02,629 --> 02:04:00,540
um why don't you ask a question then so

3061
02:04:04,490 --> 02:04:02,639
for those people who don't know ce5

3062
02:04:07,910 --> 02:04:04,500
stands for Close Encounters of the fifth

3063
02:04:10,189 --> 02:04:07,920
kind and it's reputedly some technique

3064
02:04:12,950 --> 02:04:10,199
it's some method of eliciting contact

3065
02:04:15,109 --> 02:04:12,960
between yourself and a craft or yourself

3066
02:04:17,629 --> 02:04:15,119
and what's behind the craft either

3067
02:04:19,990 --> 02:04:17,639
calling multiple to come or speaking to

3068
02:04:23,629 --> 02:04:20,000
them telepathically in some way

3069
02:04:25,669 --> 02:04:23,639
the stories are that if one performs ce5

3070
02:04:28,189 --> 02:04:25,679
and one is trained in it whatever that

3071
02:04:33,050 --> 02:04:28,199
means that one can

3072
02:04:35,149 --> 02:04:33,060
call UFOs or uaps near them so then I

3073
02:04:37,910 --> 02:04:35,159
was wondering okay well

3074
02:04:39,109 --> 02:04:37,920
that's all anecdotal this Galileo

3075
02:04:41,030 --> 02:04:39,119
project sounds like a great way of

3076
02:04:43,970 --> 02:04:41,040
testing that because you obviously would

3077
02:04:46,070 --> 02:04:43,980
like uaps to show up if you could get

3078
02:04:49,310 --> 02:04:46,080
that repeatedly that would be great okay

3079
02:04:51,290 --> 02:04:49,320
so what are your thoughts on ce5 and

3080
02:04:54,350 --> 02:04:51,300
how the Galileo project may or may not

3081
02:04:56,570 --> 02:04:54,360
use it so we get again to the same issue

3082
02:04:58,970 --> 02:04:56,580
that you brought up in the context of

3083
02:05:01,189 --> 02:04:58,980
Jacque Valley uh what is being com

3084
02:05:03,410 --> 02:05:01,199
contemplated here is a deviation from

3085
02:05:05,510 --> 02:05:03,420
the standard model of physics you see in

3086
02:05:07,729 --> 02:05:05,520
science or physics we usually use

3087
02:05:10,370 --> 02:05:07,739
instruments we don't use humans as

3088
02:05:13,129 --> 02:05:10,380
detectors why don't we use humans as

3089
02:05:16,189 --> 02:05:13,139
detectors because you know humans very

3090
02:05:19,189 --> 02:05:16,199
often are hallucinating uh they have

3091
02:05:21,589 --> 02:05:19,199
wishful thinking uh and you cannot

3092
02:05:24,169 --> 02:05:21,599
always reproduce phenomena with humans

3093
02:05:27,470 --> 02:05:24,179
okay and so I mean psychologists study

3094
02:05:30,050 --> 02:05:27,480
humans but physicists build instruments

3095
02:05:32,689 --> 02:05:30,060
that are completely separate from The

3096
02:05:35,330 --> 02:05:32,699
Human Experience so that the instruments

3097
02:05:37,609 --> 02:05:35,340
will collect quantitative data that is

3098
02:05:39,890 --> 02:05:37,619
reproducible that we fully understand

3099
02:05:42,109 --> 02:05:39,900
because we build those instruments okay

3100
02:05:46,010 --> 02:05:42,119
these are measurement devices you know

3101
02:05:48,530 --> 02:05:46,020
you can think of them as clocks rods or

3102
02:05:50,750 --> 02:05:48,540
some electronic equipment that records a

3103
02:05:54,410 --> 02:05:50,760
physical phenomena in a way that is

3104
02:05:56,510 --> 02:05:54,420
reproducible and all of modern physics

3105
02:05:58,189 --> 02:05:56,520
the advances that were made by

3106
02:06:02,089 --> 02:05:58,199
experiments were based on

3107
02:06:06,050 --> 02:06:02,099
instrumentation not in humans testimony

3108
02:06:08,570 --> 02:06:06,060
so once again we get to the issue of how

3109
02:06:10,189 --> 02:06:08,580
do we proceed in gathering evidence and

3110
02:06:11,810 --> 02:06:10,199
the Galileo project follows the

3111
02:06:15,530 --> 02:06:11,820
scientific method basically using

3112
02:06:18,350 --> 02:06:15,540
instruments not using people now it may

3113
02:06:21,290 --> 02:06:18,360
well be the case that people have some

3114
02:06:23,450 --> 02:06:21,300
insight into the UAP phenomena from

3115
02:06:25,490 --> 02:06:23,460
something that goes beyond the standard

3116
02:06:26,990 --> 02:06:25,500
model of physics it cannot be within the

3117
02:06:29,510 --> 02:06:27,000
standard model physics because it's not

3118
02:06:32,149 --> 02:06:29,520
part of it right now okay a standard

3119
02:06:36,470 --> 02:06:32,159
model of physics is a set of laws and

3120
02:06:40,790 --> 02:06:36,480
rules and equations that were derived by

3121
02:06:43,189 --> 02:06:40,800
collecting a body of evidence that by

3122
02:06:47,390 --> 02:06:43,199
using instruments in Laboratories in

3123
02:06:50,570 --> 02:06:47,400
experiments and they were never based on

3124
02:06:53,589 --> 02:06:50,580
eyewitness testimonies okay so what we

3125
02:06:55,790 --> 02:06:53,599
call the standard model of physics is

3126
02:07:00,229 --> 02:06:55,800
divorced from

3127
02:07:01,970 --> 02:07:00,239
uh reports by humans okay and if we end

3128
02:07:04,550 --> 02:07:01,980
up finding through the Galileo project

3129
02:07:06,169 --> 02:07:04,560
that humans do play a role

3130
02:07:09,109 --> 02:07:06,179
in terms of

3131
02:07:11,629 --> 02:07:09,119
the physical evidence that we collect as

3132
02:07:14,530 --> 02:07:11,639
I said before that would be

3133
02:07:17,450 --> 02:07:14,540
a very revolutionary

3134
02:07:19,669 --> 02:07:17,460
change in the way that physics is done

3135
02:07:21,109 --> 02:07:19,679
it will change the standard model of

3136
02:07:24,350 --> 02:07:21,119
physics because suddenly the human

3137
02:07:27,589 --> 02:07:24,360
consciousness has some bearing on what

3138
02:07:31,129 --> 02:07:27,599
you find okay and I don't dismiss it

3139
02:07:33,050 --> 02:07:31,139
ahead of time I just say we need to be

3140
02:07:35,930 --> 02:07:33,060
convinced by the evidence that this is

3141
02:07:39,410 --> 02:07:35,940
the case okay now some people would say

3142
02:07:40,970 --> 02:07:39,420
in quantum mechanics what humans know

3143
02:07:43,910 --> 02:07:40,980
affects

3144
02:07:46,669 --> 02:07:43,920
uh the wave function because if we

3145
02:07:49,129 --> 02:07:46,679
collect some data about the system it

3146
02:07:51,790 --> 02:07:49,139
changes the state of the system that's

3147
02:07:53,810 --> 02:07:51,800
true but it's all done mediated through

3148
02:07:57,169 --> 02:07:53,820
instrumentation it's not mediated

3149
02:08:00,290 --> 02:07:57,179
through humans human knowledge affects

3150
02:08:01,790 --> 02:08:00,300
the way we formulate quantum mechanics

3151
02:08:03,830 --> 02:08:01,800
that's true but this knowledge the

3152
02:08:05,990 --> 02:08:03,840
definition of knowledge is based on

3153
02:08:09,770 --> 02:08:06,000
instruments not based on the human body

3154
02:08:12,410 --> 02:08:09,780
okay as the detector or the human brain

3155
02:08:14,330 --> 02:08:12,420
as the detector so that's a fundamental

3156
02:08:17,089 --> 02:08:14,340
difference that you can't use humans as

3157
02:08:20,689 --> 02:08:17,099
detectors in the context of I mean all

3158
02:08:22,490 --> 02:08:20,699
of physics was designed Based on data

3159
02:08:25,129 --> 02:08:22,500
from quantitative data from instruments

3160
02:08:27,589 --> 02:08:25,139
so if it turns out that we are missing

3161
02:08:29,450 --> 02:08:27,599
something about reality in the context

3162
02:08:31,729 --> 02:08:29,460
of the stand model of physics because it

3163
02:08:34,729 --> 02:08:31,739
was only based on instruments then that

3164
02:08:37,189 --> 02:08:34,739
would be revolutionary but before we get

3165
02:08:40,729 --> 02:08:37,199
evidence for that we can't really claim

3166
02:08:43,790 --> 02:08:40,739
that so uh you know I don't dismiss it

3167
02:08:46,129 --> 02:08:43,800
ahead of time but I would like to see

3168
02:08:48,229 --> 02:08:46,139
the evidence from our instruments first

3169
02:08:50,390 --> 02:08:48,239
so you know we can potentially find

3170
02:08:52,550 --> 02:08:50,400
something like that if we bring in some

3171
02:08:54,350 --> 02:08:52,560
humans and see that a phenomena keeps

3172
02:08:55,910 --> 02:08:54,360
repeating in a way that it doesn't

3173
02:08:57,830 --> 02:08:55,920
without the humans you know that would

3174
02:08:59,270 --> 02:08:57,840
tell us yeah that's more in line with

3175
02:09:01,669 --> 02:08:59,280
what I was thinking less to just

3176
02:09:04,129 --> 02:09:01,679
wholesale believe the reports I meant

3177
02:09:06,950 --> 02:09:04,139
hey you have an observer an observatory

3178
02:09:08,570 --> 02:09:06,960
here you get some people who consider

3179
02:09:10,850 --> 02:09:08,580
themselves to be notable practitioners

3180
02:09:12,649 --> 02:09:10,860
of ce5 there's one notable one in

3181
02:09:14,689 --> 02:09:12,659
particular his name is Stephen Greer who

3182
02:09:17,570 --> 02:09:14,699
may be on the podcast at some point but

3183
02:09:19,250 --> 02:09:17,580
regardless you get them to say hey you I

3184
02:09:20,870 --> 02:09:19,260
mean you get them to show up and say Hey

3185
02:09:24,050 --> 02:09:20,880
you say that you

3186
02:09:25,910 --> 02:09:24,060
can instigate uaps why don't you go

3187
02:09:27,410 --> 02:09:25,920
ahead much like if someone said I can

3188
02:09:29,390 --> 02:09:27,420
pray in a super symmetric particle

3189
02:09:31,910 --> 02:09:29,400
appears well then you're like okay come

3190
02:09:33,229 --> 02:09:31,920
to this particle detector pray do your

3191
02:09:34,970 --> 02:09:33,239
business firstly I don't know how you

3192
02:09:36,589 --> 02:09:34,980
would even think that you come up with a

3193
02:09:37,850 --> 02:09:36,599
supersymmetric particle what is it you

3194
02:09:40,669 --> 02:09:37,860
see a flash of light do you think this

3195
02:09:42,410 --> 02:09:40,679
but regardless it's the same idea yeah

3196
02:09:44,169 --> 02:09:42,420
that would be a viable experiment I'll

3197
02:09:48,109 --> 02:09:44,179
be glad to do it

3198
02:09:50,330 --> 02:09:48,119
just to check you know why not as I said

3199
02:09:52,490 --> 02:09:50,340
before you know we are just students of

3200
02:09:54,470 --> 02:09:52,500
nature we shouldn't assume things are

3201
02:09:56,689 --> 02:09:54,480
wrong if we have the experimental setup

3202
02:09:59,570 --> 02:09:56,699
already built in and someone wants to

3203
02:10:00,649 --> 02:09:59,580
come over and do the test we'll do it no

3204
02:10:03,470 --> 02:10:00,659
problem

3205
02:10:05,450 --> 02:10:03,480
there's also the hasdown lights have you

3206
02:10:06,350 --> 02:10:05,460
heard of them and what do you make of

3207
02:10:08,030 --> 02:10:06,360
them

3208
02:10:12,169 --> 02:10:08,040
that has dahlin lights and I think

3209
02:10:14,030 --> 02:10:12,179
Norway or Denmark yeah so um this

3210
02:10:17,689 --> 02:10:14,040
belongs to the category of

3211
02:10:20,450 --> 02:10:17,699
you know civilians seeing things that

3212
02:10:22,430 --> 02:10:20,460
they do not understand and uh it could

3213
02:10:24,890 --> 02:10:22,440
be that some of these things are related

3214
02:10:27,229 --> 02:10:24,900
to military activities that the

3215
02:10:29,990 --> 02:10:27,239
civilians are not aware of or some

3216
02:10:32,629 --> 02:10:30,000
natural phenomena in the atmosphere uh

3217
02:10:35,750 --> 02:10:32,639
I'm not dismissing any possibility I'm

3218
02:10:40,310 --> 02:10:35,760
just saying the evidence is inconclusive

3219
02:10:42,589 --> 02:10:40,320
uh it's uh too anecdotal so we just need

3220
02:10:44,510 --> 02:10:42,599
to follow the scientific method collect

3221
02:10:47,810 --> 02:10:44,520
good data and then we can figure it out

3222
02:10:50,209 --> 02:10:47,820
so we can put a suite of instruments in

3223
02:10:52,370 --> 02:10:50,219
those locations and see if we if we

3224
02:10:54,350 --> 02:10:52,380
detect anything unusual yeah

3225
02:10:56,689 --> 02:10:54,360
I want to read another quote from your

3226
02:10:58,189 --> 02:10:56,699
blog self-interaction allows for the

3227
02:11:00,050 --> 02:10:58,199
possibilities that there are dark atoms

3228
02:11:02,330 --> 02:11:00,060
that emit dark radiation and condense

3229
02:11:04,550 --> 02:11:02,340
into dark stars and dark planets that

3230
02:11:06,709 --> 02:11:04,560
support dark chemistry that lead to Life

3231
02:11:08,270 --> 02:11:06,719
as we do not know it in such a case the

3232
02:11:10,070 --> 02:11:08,280
answer to fermi's question where is

3233
02:11:11,930 --> 02:11:10,080
everybody might be well you're simply

3234
02:11:14,810 --> 02:11:11,940
blind to them

3235
02:11:17,870 --> 02:11:14,820
so do you consider that there may be

3236
02:11:18,950 --> 02:11:17,880
dark matter civilizations and do you

3237
02:11:20,930 --> 02:11:18,960
imagine that they would have no clue

3238
02:11:23,810 --> 02:11:20,940
about us as well

3239
02:11:27,050 --> 02:11:23,820
they might not have and but that's a

3240
02:11:29,330 --> 02:11:27,060
long shot because well the popular view

3241
02:11:31,370 --> 02:11:29,340
of dark matter is that it has very weak

3242
02:11:34,010 --> 02:11:31,380
interactions that's the popular View and

3243
02:11:35,870 --> 02:11:34,020
if it has very weak interactions you

3244
02:11:38,750 --> 02:11:35,880
can't make atoms of dark matter you

3245
02:11:41,689 --> 02:11:38,760
can't make planets of dark matter you

3246
02:11:43,209 --> 02:11:41,699
can't make you know chemistry of life as

3247
02:11:45,530 --> 02:11:43,219
we don't know it

3248
02:11:48,169 --> 02:11:45,540
although it's a possibility you know you

3249
02:11:50,810 --> 02:11:48,179
can imagine a whole Dark Sector that is

3250
02:11:52,669 --> 02:11:50,820
completely parallel to the ordinary

3251
02:11:54,589 --> 02:11:52,679
matter that we have and it just doesn't

3252
02:11:57,470 --> 02:11:54,599
interact with anything

3253
02:12:00,770 --> 02:11:57,480
that is ordinary to us okay you can

3254
02:12:03,890 --> 02:12:00,780
imagine that and um uh that's what I

3255
02:12:05,750 --> 02:12:03,900
brought up in my essay and um you know

3256
02:12:08,570 --> 02:12:05,760
there are possibilities that we should

3257
02:12:10,129 --> 02:12:08,580
allow for this is one of them until we

3258
02:12:12,589 --> 02:12:10,139
figure out what the dark matter is

3259
02:12:14,570 --> 02:12:12,599
another possibility that we should allow

3260
02:12:16,790 --> 02:12:14,580
for is

3261
02:12:18,530 --> 02:12:16,800
we asked what happened before the Big

3262
02:12:20,209 --> 02:12:18,540
Bang you know one possibility is that

3263
02:12:23,570 --> 02:12:20,219
imagine a civilization that knows

3264
02:12:25,790 --> 02:12:23,580
quantum gravity and can engineer the

3265
02:12:28,070 --> 02:12:25,800
birth of a baby Universe in the

3266
02:12:30,770 --> 02:12:28,080
laboratory uh so then you ask yourself

3267
02:12:33,470 --> 02:12:30,780
what was there before the big bad well

3268
02:12:37,010 --> 02:12:33,480
maybe there were some entities in lab

3269
02:12:38,750 --> 02:12:37,020
coats you know white lab coats that did

3270
02:12:41,750 --> 02:12:38,760
an experiment that created the Big Bang

3271
02:12:44,089 --> 02:12:41,760
in the in their laboratory now what

3272
02:12:47,930 --> 02:12:44,099
would that be like it's just like you

3273
02:12:50,149 --> 02:12:47,940
know us giving birth to babies that grow

3274
02:12:53,149 --> 02:12:50,159
up to become adults that give birth to

3275
02:12:55,189 --> 02:12:53,159
babies and so forth so in any Universe

3276
02:12:57,470 --> 02:12:55,199
like ours there could be intelligent

3277
02:13:00,169 --> 02:12:57,480
civilizations that develop the

3278
02:13:02,689 --> 02:13:00,179
technology to give birth to baby

3279
02:13:05,629 --> 02:13:02,699
universes and you move from one

3280
02:13:07,669 --> 02:13:05,639
generation to the next this way that's

3281
02:13:09,229 --> 02:13:07,679
just a possibility I'm not saying since

3282
02:13:11,390 --> 02:13:09,239
we don't have a theory of quantum

3283
02:13:13,490 --> 02:13:11,400
gravity we should at least allow for

3284
02:13:15,050 --> 02:13:13,500
that because at the moment we have no

3285
02:13:17,510 --> 02:13:15,060
clue as to what happened before the big

3286
02:13:19,850 --> 02:13:17,520
back one of the popular ideas that it

3287
02:13:21,589 --> 02:13:19,860
came out of nothing out of the vacuum as

3288
02:13:24,470 --> 02:13:21,599
a vacuum fluctuation I don't know if

3289
02:13:27,410 --> 02:13:24,480
that's more appealing to me uh to say

3290
02:13:30,770 --> 02:13:27,420
that our universe is one out of 10 to

3291
02:13:33,410 --> 02:13:30,780
the 500 possibilities and we live in it

3292
02:13:35,810 --> 02:13:33,420
just because it allows us to exist other

3293
02:13:37,669 --> 02:13:35,820
than saying you know this is the kind of

3294
02:13:40,010 --> 02:13:37,679
universe that gives birth to

3295
02:13:43,729 --> 02:13:40,020
intelligence such that a baby universe

3296
02:13:45,649 --> 02:13:43,739
will be born out of it yeah there's

3297
02:13:47,390 --> 02:13:45,659
someone named well you know Lee smallen

3298
02:13:50,270 --> 02:13:47,400
who has this idea or used to have the

3299
02:13:51,770 --> 02:13:50,280
idea that universes are there such that

3300
02:13:53,569 --> 02:13:51,780
they maximize the amount of black holes

3301
02:13:54,770 --> 02:13:53,579
because black holes are what birth the

3302
02:13:56,330 --> 02:13:54,780
universe is and then there's a way of

3303
02:13:58,010 --> 02:13:56,340
testing this apparently and then I

3304
02:13:59,390 --> 02:13:58,020
wonder if the conditions for black holes

3305
02:14:02,750 --> 02:13:59,400
are the same as the conditions for

3306
02:14:06,050 --> 02:14:02,760
intelligent life in which case then

3307
02:14:08,510 --> 02:14:06,060
that may be an explanation yeah so his

3308
02:14:10,430 --> 02:14:08,520
idea was that we don't understand what

3309
02:14:13,430 --> 02:14:10,440
happens at the The Singularity of a

3310
02:14:15,169 --> 02:14:13,440
black hole so maybe when matter falls to

3311
02:14:17,990 --> 02:14:15,179
the singularity of a black or it gives

3312
02:14:20,209 --> 02:14:18,000
birth to a new universe and I you know

3313
02:14:21,290 --> 02:14:20,219
we don't know that it's the case we

3314
02:14:23,330 --> 02:14:21,300
don't know what happens near the

3315
02:14:25,729 --> 02:14:23,340
singularity of a black hole it's

3316
02:14:27,050 --> 02:14:25,739
completely speculative to argue that out

3317
02:14:29,450 --> 02:14:27,060
of the singularity of a black world

3318
02:14:33,770 --> 02:14:29,460
comes a whole new universe I'm just

3319
02:14:37,069 --> 02:14:33,780
saying that there could be a sort of uh

3320
02:14:39,589 --> 02:14:37,079
a reason why you give birth mostly to

3321
02:14:42,069 --> 02:14:39,599
universes that allow intelligence to

3322
02:14:44,390 --> 02:14:42,079
develop like ah our technological

3323
02:14:46,850 --> 02:14:44,400
civilization because then you have a

3324
02:14:48,410 --> 02:14:46,860
chance of them coming up with a theory

3325
02:14:50,930 --> 02:14:48,420
of quantum gravity such that they

3326
02:14:53,810 --> 02:14:50,940
engineer a baby universes once again and

3327
02:14:56,870 --> 02:14:53,820
so it's just like natural selection that

3328
02:14:59,870 --> 02:14:56,880
selects those types of universes that

3329
02:15:01,550 --> 02:14:59,880
allow more and more generations of the

3330
02:15:02,810 --> 02:15:01,560
same type of universe to come into

3331
02:15:05,990 --> 02:15:02,820
fruition

3332
02:15:08,629 --> 02:15:06,000
and it's different from The View on on

3333
02:15:10,550 --> 02:15:08,639
black holes in the sense that you know

3334
02:15:12,229 --> 02:15:10,560
it gives us an important place in the

3335
02:15:13,430 --> 02:15:12,239
universe the black hole case you just

3336
02:15:16,490 --> 02:15:13,440
say okay there are these physical

3337
02:15:18,770 --> 02:15:16,500
entities that give birth to maybe give

3338
02:15:21,589 --> 02:15:18,780
birth to universes that's I would say

3339
02:15:24,189 --> 02:15:21,599
that's not so uplifting not inspiring

3340
02:15:26,870 --> 02:15:24,199
but if you think that we would one day

3341
02:15:29,030 --> 02:15:26,880
engineer the birth of a baby Universe

3342
02:15:32,569 --> 02:15:29,040
you know that gives it's sort of like

3343
02:15:35,390 --> 02:15:32,579
thinking about yourself as a future

3344
02:15:38,209 --> 02:15:35,400
parent you know that gives you a purpose

3345
02:15:41,870 --> 02:15:38,219
for Life uh let's develop quantum

3346
02:15:45,229 --> 02:15:41,880
gravity so that we can maintain uh the

3347
02:15:47,030 --> 02:15:45,239
longevity of more universes like ours uh

3348
02:15:48,649 --> 02:15:47,040
it gives you a purpose for life just

3349
02:15:51,470 --> 02:15:48,659
knowing that the black hole will give

3350
02:15:53,390 --> 02:15:51,480
birth to universes to me quite

3351
02:15:55,609 --> 02:15:53,400
depressing if that's the reason speaking

3352
02:15:57,530 --> 02:15:55,619
of us from the field or giving birth to

3353
02:15:59,450 --> 02:15:57,540
something from the future this eternal

3354
02:16:01,129 --> 02:15:59,460
you from boober there's another quote

3355
02:16:03,950 --> 02:16:01,139
that I have though I believe this is

3356
02:16:06,649 --> 02:16:03,960
someone speaking to you Avi but I'm

3357
02:16:08,030 --> 02:16:06,659
quoting it anyway he said if you obvi

3358
02:16:10,310 --> 02:16:08,040
find yourself one day holding a piece of

3359
02:16:11,450 --> 02:16:10,320
technology so Advanced that so-and-so

3360
02:16:15,109 --> 02:16:11,460
you believe it came from another

3361
02:16:16,790 --> 02:16:15,119
civilization that experience of awe will

3362
02:16:18,890 --> 02:16:16,800
be because you managed an encounter with

3363
02:16:21,709 --> 02:16:18,900
the Eternal you in this civilization

3364
02:16:23,030 --> 02:16:21,719
that sent to the object your way so this

3365
02:16:25,189 --> 02:16:23,040
eternal you I didn't realize at the time

3366
02:16:27,109 --> 02:16:25,199
that that was a metaphor for God I

3367
02:16:30,229 --> 02:16:27,119
thought that this eternal you was

3368
02:16:32,450 --> 02:16:30,239
somehow Eternal as in temporally distant

3369
02:16:34,370 --> 02:16:32,460
or like infinite even and that it was

3370
02:16:36,770 --> 02:16:34,380
sent from you from the future to the

3371
02:16:39,349 --> 02:16:36,780
past so then I was wondering okay is

3372
02:16:41,690 --> 02:16:39,359
this obvi speculating on time travel but

3373
02:16:44,750 --> 02:16:41,700
anyway given that what are your thoughts

3374
02:16:46,969 --> 02:16:44,760
on time travel well okay so first I need

3375
02:16:50,929 --> 02:16:46,979
to explain this this quote that you just

3376
02:16:54,169 --> 02:16:50,939
read was a response to a commentary that

3377
02:16:59,570 --> 02:16:54,179
I wrote just a day before that and that

3378
02:17:01,190 --> 02:16:59,580
person read it uh Tony Lux uh the my I

3379
02:17:03,709 --> 02:17:01,200
raised the following question I said

3380
02:17:08,270 --> 02:17:03,719
suppose

3381
02:17:12,650 --> 02:17:08,280
um we find a version 100 of the iPhone

3382
02:17:14,690 --> 02:17:12,660
okay and and show it to an entrepreneur

3383
02:17:17,870 --> 02:17:14,700
from Silicon Valley would the

3384
02:17:19,730 --> 02:17:17,880
entrepreneur feel like Moses felt seeing

3385
02:17:24,910 --> 02:17:19,740
the burning bush

3386
02:17:28,190 --> 02:17:24,920
uh which was a sense of oh an admiration

3387
02:17:31,129 --> 02:17:28,200
uh and in the case of Moses it was The

3388
02:17:32,330 --> 02:17:31,139
Burning Bush was a symbol for a Divine

3389
02:17:36,889 --> 02:17:32,340
entity

3390
02:17:39,770 --> 02:17:36,899
right and so the response was that I

3391
02:17:42,650 --> 02:17:39,780
would potentially have the same sense of

3392
02:17:45,410 --> 02:17:42,660
all when seeing a high level

3393
02:17:48,650 --> 02:17:45,420
technological device and noticing the

3394
02:17:50,750 --> 02:17:48,660
buttons on it uh and the Miracles that

3395
02:17:54,530 --> 02:17:50,760
they can perform

3396
02:17:56,209 --> 02:17:54,540
um so again it goes to the point that I

3397
02:17:58,730 --> 02:17:56,219
brought up before that the sufficiently

3398
02:18:01,250 --> 02:17:58,740
advanced scientific civilization may be

3399
02:18:04,370 --> 02:18:01,260
a good approximation to God and by the

3400
02:18:06,290 --> 02:18:04,380
way this is a way to unify religion and

3401
02:18:07,610 --> 02:18:06,300
science it's often thought that religion

3402
02:18:11,089 --> 02:18:07,620
and science

3403
02:18:13,370 --> 02:18:11,099
do not have any overlap that in fact one

3404
02:18:16,250 --> 02:18:13,380
comes at the expense of the other and

3405
02:18:17,990 --> 02:18:16,260
many many secular scientists including

3406
02:18:21,770 --> 02:18:18,000
Stephen Weinberg the Nobel Laureate

3407
02:18:24,049 --> 02:18:21,780
tried to argue that religion is a theme

3408
02:18:27,009 --> 02:18:24,059
of the past that we should abundantly

3409
02:18:30,530 --> 02:18:27,019
abandon it and bravely

3410
02:18:33,650 --> 02:18:30,540
Embrace a universe which has nothing to

3411
02:18:36,969 --> 02:18:33,660
do with the Divine entity now I say

3412
02:18:40,490 --> 02:18:36,979
wait a minute just you know be a

3413
02:18:43,730 --> 02:18:40,500
be a little more patient because if we

3414
02:18:45,530 --> 02:18:43,740
do find a civilization that let's say is

3415
02:18:47,690 --> 02:18:45,540
a million years ahead of us in

3416
02:18:50,389 --> 02:18:47,700
technological development their

3417
02:18:53,030 --> 02:18:50,399
Technologies would appear to us as a

3418
02:18:56,389 --> 02:18:53,040
good approximation to God and therefore

3419
02:18:58,849 --> 02:18:56,399
whatever we assign to a Divine entity in

3420
02:19:01,490 --> 02:18:58,859
religious and philosophical texts would

3421
02:19:05,690 --> 02:19:01,500
apply to whatever we find from them okay

3422
02:19:08,030 --> 02:19:05,700
and so there is a way of unifying an

3423
02:19:10,009 --> 02:19:08,040
entity that was part of spiritual

3424
02:19:13,910 --> 02:19:10,019
practice an entity that is much more

3425
02:19:16,790 --> 02:19:13,920
capable than we are which is pretty much

3426
02:19:18,950 --> 02:19:16,800
God you know like something that is

3427
02:19:21,650 --> 02:19:18,960
capable of doing things that we cannot

3428
02:19:25,370 --> 02:19:21,660
imagine even getting close to

3429
02:19:27,169 --> 02:19:25,380
um and associating it with our distant

3430
02:19:28,790 --> 02:19:27,179
future like in million years from now a

3431
02:19:30,770 --> 02:19:28,800
billion years from now and another

3432
02:19:32,509 --> 02:19:30,780
civilization may have arrived at that

3433
02:19:34,129 --> 02:19:32,519
future before we did simply because

3434
02:19:37,129 --> 02:19:34,139
their star formed billions of years

3435
02:19:39,770 --> 02:19:37,139
before the sun that's all so you started

3436
02:19:42,290 --> 02:19:39,780
the clock earlier for them and now

3437
02:19:44,929 --> 02:19:42,300
you're seeing something that looks just

3438
02:19:46,730 --> 02:19:44,939
like a cell phone to a cave dweller okay

3439
02:19:49,610 --> 02:19:46,740
and so

3440
02:19:52,190 --> 02:19:49,620
it would look like a miracle what if he

3441
02:19:54,349 --> 02:19:52,200
said in response that being pretty much

3442
02:19:56,570 --> 02:19:54,359
like God is completely different than

3443
02:19:58,849 --> 02:19:56,580
being God and the reason is that in

3444
02:20:00,230 --> 02:19:58,859
traditional religion God is this eternal

3445
02:20:01,969 --> 02:20:00,240
being that was there from the beginning

3446
02:20:03,530 --> 02:20:01,979
if there was such a thing as the

3447
02:20:05,750 --> 02:20:03,540
quote-unquote beginning and it's not

3448
02:20:07,670 --> 02:20:05,760
just to breed life out of inorganic

3449
02:20:09,650 --> 02:20:07,680
matter but to breed the universe to

3450
02:20:11,690 --> 02:20:09,660
begin with not breed the universe from

3451
02:20:14,030 --> 02:20:11,700
Once you already exist within a universe

3452
02:20:16,849 --> 02:20:14,040
and create another one but create the

3453
02:20:19,969 --> 02:20:16,859
laws and did so out of some semblance of

3454
02:20:23,750 --> 02:20:19,979
love and they care for you so let me uh

3455
02:20:26,510 --> 02:20:23,760
mention in an anecdote one day I saw a

3456
02:20:28,790 --> 02:20:26,520
person on the street next to my home my

3457
02:20:30,889 --> 02:20:28,800
wife was telling me it might be a

3458
02:20:32,270 --> 02:20:30,899
stalker he's looking at our home for

3459
02:20:34,910 --> 02:20:32,280
half an hour now

3460
02:20:38,809 --> 02:20:34,920
you you became quite well known why

3461
02:20:41,809 --> 02:20:38,819
don't you check who this person is so I

3462
02:20:45,590 --> 02:20:41,819
went to the street and I asked the man

3463
02:20:47,510 --> 02:20:45,600
you're brave uh yeah I you know uh what

3464
02:20:49,670 --> 02:20:47,520
do I have to lose

3465
02:20:51,230 --> 02:20:49,680
um uh I went to the person and I said

3466
02:20:52,309 --> 02:20:51,240
why are you looking at our home for so

3467
02:20:55,370 --> 02:20:52,319
long

3468
02:20:58,010 --> 02:20:55,380
and he said I used to live in that home

3469
02:21:01,270 --> 02:20:58,020
50 years ago I was a kid

3470
02:21:04,910 --> 02:21:01,280
and my father by the way buried the cat

3471
02:21:07,490 --> 02:21:04,920
named tiger in your backyard

3472
02:21:10,969 --> 02:21:07,500
and I said well that sounds familiar

3473
02:21:14,270 --> 02:21:10,979
because I saw a tombstone with the name

3474
02:21:17,330 --> 02:21:14,280
tiger on top of it and I was worried

3475
02:21:19,309 --> 02:21:17,340
that there is a tiger buried under it I

3476
02:21:21,110 --> 02:21:19,319
didn't know what skeleton might be lying

3477
02:21:24,110 --> 02:21:21,120
underneath and now I know it's a cat

3478
02:21:25,849 --> 02:21:24,120
from 50 years ago now what's the moral

3479
02:21:30,349 --> 02:21:25,859
of this story

3480
02:21:33,950 --> 02:21:30,359
if you share some space with someone

3481
02:21:37,790 --> 02:21:33,960
else who predated you that someone else

3482
02:21:38,929 --> 02:21:37,800
may know more about your backyard than

3483
02:21:42,230 --> 02:21:38,939
you know

3484
02:21:44,809 --> 02:21:42,240
and therefore you should show respect to

3485
02:21:48,469 --> 02:21:44,819
visitors they may know something about

3486
02:21:51,010 --> 02:21:48,479
our past that we don't know uh and

3487
02:21:54,550 --> 02:21:51,020
that's why you should always welcome

3488
02:21:58,550 --> 02:21:54,560
Interstellar visitors and when you say

3489
02:22:00,110 --> 02:21:58,560
that you know a Divine entity God knows

3490
02:22:02,870 --> 02:22:00,120
much more because it may have existed

3491
02:22:05,090 --> 02:22:02,880
forever it what you define as eternity

3492
02:22:07,550 --> 02:22:05,100
you know a billion years might be

3493
02:22:10,370 --> 02:22:07,560
eternity compared to a century of our

3494
02:22:12,770 --> 02:22:10,380
Science and Technology okay so what you

3495
02:22:15,830 --> 02:22:12,780
call eternity is a quantitative matter

3496
02:22:18,349 --> 02:22:15,840
and given that we you know our

3497
02:22:20,510 --> 02:22:18,359
Technologies develop exponential on a

3498
02:22:24,110 --> 02:22:20,520
few year time scale you know every few

3499
02:22:26,690 --> 02:22:24,120
years we double our computational

3500
02:22:29,389 --> 02:22:26,700
capabilities that's more slow you know

3501
02:22:32,570 --> 02:22:29,399
we develop technologies that never

3502
02:22:35,330 --> 02:22:32,580
existed so just think about it if we

3503
02:22:38,270 --> 02:22:35,340
double every two years what would happen

3504
02:22:40,730 --> 02:22:38,280
in a million years what would happen in

3505
02:22:42,230 --> 02:22:40,740
a billionaires if it's exponential up to

3506
02:22:44,330 --> 02:22:42,240
a point you know of course eventually

3507
02:22:47,150 --> 02:22:44,340
the laws of physics come to haunt you

3508
02:22:49,630 --> 02:22:47,160
but just think about an exponential

3509
02:22:53,090 --> 02:22:49,640
curve that has instead of one century

3510
02:22:54,469 --> 02:22:53,100
has thousands millions or even billions

3511
02:22:58,190 --> 02:22:54,479
of years

3512
02:23:01,490 --> 02:22:58,200
of History it would look like it turned

3513
02:23:04,550 --> 02:23:01,500
to you because the state that such a

3514
02:23:06,110 --> 02:23:04,560
civilization will get to would be so

3515
02:23:08,630 --> 02:23:06,120
Advanced that you wouldn't be able to

3516
02:23:11,630 --> 02:23:08,640
comprehend it now it might not get there

3517
02:23:14,750 --> 02:23:11,640
because it may be short-lived for

3518
02:23:16,849 --> 02:23:14,760
example just like now we have virtual

3519
02:23:19,010 --> 02:23:16,859
reality machines you know like you hook

3520
02:23:20,750 --> 02:23:19,020
yourself to goggles that give you a

3521
02:23:22,730 --> 02:23:20,760
sense of virtual reality it's sort of

3522
02:23:24,349 --> 02:23:22,740
like being high on drugs you know you're

3523
02:23:27,110 --> 02:23:24,359
looking at some reality that doesn't

3524
02:23:29,330 --> 02:23:27,120
exist okay and suppose another

3525
02:23:32,210 --> 02:23:29,340
civilization got to the point where they

3526
02:23:34,130 --> 02:23:32,220
developed these VR goggles and they are

3527
02:23:36,410 --> 02:23:34,140
hooked to them they're happy with them

3528
02:23:38,389 --> 02:23:36,420
they put them on their face as soon as

3529
02:23:40,370 --> 02:23:38,399
they are born and they live in these

3530
02:23:43,010 --> 02:23:40,380
virtual realities they will never engage

3531
02:23:45,170 --> 02:23:43,020
with us okay that would be a solution to

3532
02:23:47,750 --> 02:23:45,180
fermis Paradox why don't we see them

3533
02:23:51,230 --> 02:23:47,760
because they're hooked to these goggles

3534
02:23:53,450 --> 02:23:51,240
uh but on the other hand if they are

3535
02:23:56,389 --> 02:23:53,460
curious about the real world if they

3536
02:23:58,309 --> 02:23:56,399
don't talk about mathematical gymnastics

3537
02:24:01,010 --> 02:23:58,319
that we talked about before if they're

3538
02:24:03,590 --> 02:24:01,020
really hooked to the real world they

3539
02:24:05,630 --> 02:24:03,600
explore the real world and they discover

3540
02:24:08,090 --> 02:24:05,640
the real world so that they develop

3541
02:24:10,790 --> 02:24:08,100
gadgets that travel through Interstellar

3542
02:24:14,330 --> 02:24:10,800
space and rich places

3543
02:24:16,969 --> 02:24:14,340
then they might look to us

3544
02:24:19,309 --> 02:24:16,979
it's a good approximation to go and so

3545
02:24:22,190 --> 02:24:19,319
there is this tension between a

3546
02:24:26,170 --> 02:24:22,200
civilization closing off engaging in

3547
02:24:29,270 --> 02:24:26,180
Wars uh engaging in destructive measures

3548
02:24:30,290 --> 02:24:29,280
uh or simply isolating itself from

3549
02:24:33,590 --> 02:24:30,300
reality

3550
02:24:35,990 --> 02:24:33,600
there is this risk which I'm fighting uh

3551
02:24:38,929 --> 02:24:36,000
you know in my pursuit of evidence I'm

3552
02:24:40,610 --> 02:24:38,939
fighting against but there is a

3553
02:24:41,990 --> 02:24:40,620
possibility that our civilization will

3554
02:24:45,530 --> 02:24:42,000
get to that

3555
02:24:49,910 --> 02:24:45,540
uh sterile endpoint where either it

3556
02:24:52,550 --> 02:24:49,920
destroys Itself by Wars or it hooks

3557
02:24:54,650 --> 02:24:52,560
itself to some virtual reality okay

3558
02:24:56,570 --> 02:24:54,660
there is that danger and if you get

3559
02:24:58,849 --> 02:24:56,580
there you will never launch things into

3560
02:25:01,610 --> 02:24:58,859
the real space intercept so there is

3561
02:25:03,650 --> 02:25:01,620
this tension between the finite lifetime

3562
02:25:05,389 --> 02:25:03,660
of a technological civilization and the

3563
02:25:08,510 --> 02:25:05,399
ability of that Civilization to launch

3564
02:25:11,450 --> 02:25:08,520
equipment to space and and I'm just

3565
02:25:15,530 --> 02:25:11,460
relying on the hope that there there was

3566
02:25:18,710 --> 02:25:15,540
someone out there that didn't surrender

3567
02:25:21,490 --> 02:25:18,720
to the risks of living in virtual

3568
02:25:24,650 --> 02:25:21,500
reality didn't surrender to the risk of

3569
02:25:27,410 --> 02:25:24,660
pursuing your ego going towards but

3570
02:25:31,190 --> 02:25:27,420
actually was curious

3571
02:25:33,410 --> 02:25:31,200
about exploring Interstellar space and I

3572
02:25:35,990 --> 02:25:33,420
hope that among the tens of billions of

3573
02:25:39,110 --> 02:25:36,000
stars there is someone like that by the

3574
02:25:42,550 --> 02:25:39,120
way just so that you know uh so far

3575
02:25:47,929 --> 02:25:46,309
140 billion people who ever lived on the

3576
02:25:49,510 --> 02:25:47,939
surface of Earth throughout human

3577
02:25:53,750 --> 02:25:49,520
history

3578
02:25:55,490 --> 02:25:53,760
and there are more stars than that in

3579
02:25:57,710 --> 02:25:55,500
the Milky Way galaxy so we have more

3580
02:26:01,849 --> 02:25:57,720
than one star per person who ever lived

3581
02:26:05,030 --> 02:26:01,859
maybe 10 stars and that gives me hope

3582
02:26:07,070 --> 02:26:05,040
I saw when I was researching the Galileo

3583
02:26:09,170 --> 02:26:07,080
Project online that Stephen Wolfram is

3584
02:26:12,050 --> 02:26:09,180
on The Advisory Board and I'm curious

3585
02:26:13,670 --> 02:26:12,060
what does Stephen contribute to what are

3586
02:26:14,929 --> 02:26:13,680
his views if you're allowed to reference

3587
02:26:17,210 --> 02:26:14,939
them

3588
02:26:21,290 --> 02:26:17,220
yeah so there are a number of people who

3589
02:26:24,790 --> 02:26:21,300
serve on our Advisory Board and they

3590
02:26:28,389 --> 02:26:24,800
provide us with advice and comments and

3591
02:26:31,370 --> 02:26:28,399
Stephen is a brilliant

3592
02:26:34,330 --> 02:26:31,380
physicist slash computer scientist and

3593
02:26:37,730 --> 02:26:34,340
we benefit every now and then from his

3594
02:26:40,910 --> 02:26:37,740
advice to the project but he is not

3595
02:26:43,550 --> 02:26:40,920
engaged in the day-to-day routine work

3596
02:26:45,950 --> 02:26:43,560
that we have uh and there's a number of

3597
02:26:48,170 --> 02:26:45,960
other advisors that we have there are

3598
02:26:50,150 --> 02:26:48,180
some that are those philanthropic

3599
02:26:51,950 --> 02:26:50,160
advisors who contributed funds to the

3600
02:26:54,410 --> 02:26:51,960
project you can find them on the website

3601
02:26:56,510 --> 02:26:54,420
that there are others that are that

3602
02:26:59,030 --> 02:26:56,520
belong to the science Advisory Board and

3603
02:27:01,969 --> 02:26:59,040
these are people who did not provide us

3604
02:27:04,070 --> 02:27:01,979
with funding but provide us with advice

3605
02:27:07,370 --> 02:27:04,080
what about rizwan Burke

3606
02:27:09,530 --> 02:27:07,380
it's the same category he actually

3607
02:27:12,650 --> 02:27:09,540
um every now and then tries to help also

3608
02:27:16,010 --> 02:27:12,660
in terms of approaching other potential

3609
02:27:22,130 --> 02:27:16,020
donors and in general he provides advice

3610
02:27:25,790 --> 02:27:23,809
I noticed that I have a question here in

3611
02:27:27,710 --> 02:27:25,800
bold about Bruce Fenton and the tech

3612
02:27:29,690 --> 02:27:27,720
tits if you don't mind commenting what

3613
02:27:31,670 --> 02:27:29,700
are your views on that PDF it's Bruce

3614
02:27:34,910 --> 02:27:31,680
Fenton and he had the australasian tech

3615
02:27:37,910 --> 02:27:34,920
tits Interstellar object debris

3616
02:27:39,530 --> 02:27:37,920
yeah so these tactites are an

3617
02:27:42,130 --> 02:27:39,540
interesting puzzle as to what their

3618
02:27:46,190 --> 02:27:42,140
origin is but we don't know the answer

3619
02:27:48,309 --> 02:27:46,200
and then you know in principle it's

3620
02:27:51,170 --> 02:27:48,319
possible they represent some unusual

3621
02:27:54,469 --> 02:27:51,180
asteroids comets or Interstellar objects

3622
02:27:58,190 --> 02:27:54,479
but um it's just unclear at the moment I

3623
02:28:01,429 --> 02:27:58,200
would say the jury is still out and then

3624
02:28:03,770 --> 02:28:01,439
we need more more data so for example if

3625
02:28:06,950 --> 02:28:03,780
we examine Interstellar objects like the

3626
02:28:10,010 --> 02:28:06,960
meteor that landed near Papua New Guinea

3627
02:28:13,090 --> 02:28:10,020
we can tell whether the composition uh

3628
02:28:15,469 --> 02:28:13,100
indeed resembles those tactiles or not

3629
02:28:17,870 --> 02:28:15,479
Professor what opinion of yours has

3630
02:28:20,450 --> 02:28:17,880
changed in the past few months as a

3631
02:28:24,770 --> 02:28:20,460
result of the Galileo project

3632
02:28:26,330 --> 02:28:24,780
well uh we don't have new data to

3633
02:28:28,790 --> 02:28:26,340
provide us with evidence about

3634
02:28:32,090 --> 02:28:28,800
unidentified objects or the interstellar

3635
02:28:35,870 --> 02:28:32,100
meteor or any more like object but but

3636
02:28:37,849 --> 02:28:35,880
the one thing I learned is that there

3637
02:28:40,130 --> 02:28:37,859
are lots of curious

3638
02:28:42,710 --> 02:28:40,140
people out there within the Galileo

3639
02:28:45,530 --> 02:28:42,720
project is a real pleasure and privilege

3640
02:28:47,389 --> 02:28:45,540
for me to work with a lot of skillful

3641
02:28:49,010 --> 02:28:47,399
individuals that are dedicated to the

3642
02:28:51,770 --> 02:28:49,020
projects volunteer the time and

3643
02:28:54,170 --> 02:28:51,780
expertise and we are making headways so

3644
02:28:56,170 --> 02:28:54,180
I'm very encouraged by that I I don't

3645
02:28:58,790 --> 02:28:56,180
take it for granted because these are

3646
02:29:01,190 --> 02:28:58,800
people who volunteered I didn't approach

3647
02:29:03,290 --> 02:29:01,200
them they came to me we have 800

3648
02:29:06,110 --> 02:29:03,300
additional volunteers that we haven't

3649
02:29:08,809 --> 02:29:06,120
reviewed yet so we have a hundred people

3650
02:29:10,610 --> 02:29:08,819
in the project 800 more who filled up

3651
02:29:12,950 --> 02:29:10,620
the form and we are now in the process

3652
02:29:15,110 --> 02:29:12,960
of reviewing them and selecting those

3653
02:29:18,429 --> 02:29:15,120
that have the expertise that matches our

3654
02:29:22,010 --> 02:29:18,439
interests are our needs so all together

3655
02:29:25,910 --> 02:29:22,020
along with the Public's response to the

3656
02:29:27,410 --> 02:29:25,920
work we do gives me a lot of hope uh and

3657
02:29:29,809 --> 02:29:27,420
so every day you know it's just like

3658
02:29:32,630 --> 02:29:29,819
swimming in very turbulent Waters there

3659
02:29:34,610 --> 02:29:32,640
are people who try to bring you down and

3660
02:29:36,469 --> 02:29:34,620
then these are waves that carry you to

3661
02:29:38,090 --> 02:29:36,479
the bottom of the ocean but at the same

3662
02:29:41,450 --> 02:29:38,100
time every day there are people people

3663
02:29:44,389 --> 02:29:41,460
that lift me up and I just need to

3664
02:29:47,150 --> 02:29:44,399
average and and the average is very

3665
02:29:49,309 --> 02:29:47,160
positive I should say and but what I

3666
02:29:52,190 --> 02:29:49,319
find puzzling are those people who try

3667
02:29:54,429 --> 02:29:52,200
to sabotage the effort because we are

3668
02:29:57,349 --> 02:29:54,439
not taking any funds from existing

3669
02:29:59,630 --> 02:29:57,359
projects and we are just pursuing

3670
02:30:01,730 --> 02:29:59,640
evidence that's what this that's what

3671
02:30:04,969 --> 02:30:01,740
science is supposed to be so anyone

3672
02:30:07,450 --> 02:30:04,979
objecting to this approach is objecting

3673
02:30:10,790 --> 02:30:07,460
the fundamental principles of science

3674
02:30:13,190 --> 02:30:10,800
pioneered by Galileo Galilei yeah that's

3675
02:30:15,530 --> 02:30:13,200
why I didn't get why NASA finds it to be

3676
02:30:16,550 --> 02:30:15,540
a conflict of interest oh that's

3677
02:30:19,250 --> 02:30:16,560
interesting

3678
02:30:22,010 --> 02:30:19,260
um they say that since I'm leading the

3679
02:30:24,230 --> 02:30:22,020
Galileo project I'm already engaged in

3680
02:30:26,450 --> 02:30:24,240
this activity and their committee is

3681
02:30:29,690 --> 02:30:26,460
supposed to evaluate whether they should

3682
02:30:32,030 --> 02:30:29,700
fund this activity so their argument is

3683
02:30:34,550 --> 02:30:32,040
if I were to serve on the committee I

3684
02:30:35,870 --> 02:30:34,560
would probably advocate for funding and

3685
02:30:38,389 --> 02:30:35,880
therefore the conflict of interest

3686
02:30:42,889 --> 02:30:38,399
because I may apply for these funds

3687
02:30:46,190 --> 02:30:42,899
later on okay uh however if you do for

3688
02:30:48,110 --> 02:30:46,200
example consider climate change suppose

3689
02:30:50,809 --> 02:30:48,120
NASA established a committee that will

3690
02:30:53,030 --> 02:30:50,819
study climate change would they ban

3691
02:30:55,010 --> 02:30:53,040
people who are researching climate

3692
02:30:58,849 --> 02:30:55,020
change from being on the committee I

3693
02:31:00,290 --> 02:30:58,859
don't think so so part of this is uh the

3694
02:31:02,150 --> 02:31:00,300
stigma that there is on the subject

3695
02:31:06,170 --> 02:31:02,160
because they are not sure whether it's

3696
02:31:08,870 --> 02:31:06,180
it's worth funding and then if they were

3697
02:31:11,270 --> 02:31:08,880
as sure as they were about studying

3698
02:31:13,370 --> 02:31:11,280
climate change then they would allow for

3699
02:31:15,110 --> 02:31:13,380
me to be on the committee okay so

3700
02:31:17,389 --> 02:31:15,120
Professor I'm sure you've heard of

3701
02:31:20,809 --> 02:31:17,399
variable light theories what do you see

3702
02:31:23,870 --> 02:31:20,819
as their advantage or disadvantage

3703
02:31:26,750 --> 02:31:23,880
um at the moment we don't have uh any

3704
02:31:29,210 --> 02:31:26,760
definite evidence for

3705
02:31:31,270 --> 02:31:29,220
um anything moving faster than light or

3706
02:31:35,210 --> 02:31:31,280
or that the speed of light is variable

3707
02:31:38,809 --> 02:31:35,220
of course in principle that could change

3708
02:31:40,969 --> 02:31:38,819
our perspective on The Big Bang on what

3709
02:31:43,849 --> 02:31:40,979
happens inside the black hole and some

3710
02:31:45,950 --> 02:31:43,859
people suggested that this could resolve

3711
02:31:48,110 --> 02:31:45,960
the singularities we have in Einstein's

3712
02:31:50,030 --> 02:31:48,120
theory of gravity but at the moment

3713
02:31:53,389 --> 02:31:50,040
these are just speculations we don't

3714
02:31:55,130 --> 02:31:53,399
have any evidence for that and the speed

3715
02:31:57,950 --> 02:31:55,140
of light is significant because it

3716
02:32:01,130 --> 02:31:57,960
represents the fastest

3717
02:32:04,610 --> 02:32:01,140
speed by which any material particle can

3718
02:32:06,410 --> 02:32:04,620
move and so if you change the speed of

3719
02:32:09,349 --> 02:32:06,420
light you can change the rate by which

3720
02:32:11,270 --> 02:32:09,359
you communicate and obviously you can

3721
02:32:13,849 --> 02:32:11,280
change the Horizon out to which you can

3722
02:32:16,309 --> 02:32:13,859
see things there's also another theory

3723
02:32:18,530 --> 02:32:16,319
called Direct's large number hypothesis

3724
02:32:20,510 --> 02:32:18,540
so what are your thoughts on that and

3725
02:32:24,830 --> 02:32:20,520
for those who are unfamiliar do you mind

3726
02:32:30,290 --> 02:32:24,840
giving a brief overview yeah so in 1937

3727
02:32:35,389 --> 02:32:30,300
Paul Dirac made a hypothesis about large

3728
02:32:37,849 --> 02:32:35,399
numbers uh he uh observed that you can

3729
02:32:39,830 --> 02:32:37,859
make dimensionless combination of some

3730
02:32:40,750 --> 02:32:39,840
of the fundamental constants that we

3731
02:32:44,270 --> 02:32:40,760
have

3732
02:32:45,790 --> 02:32:44,280
and obtain the very large number out of

3733
02:32:48,050 --> 02:32:45,800
them and

3734
02:32:50,170 --> 02:32:48,060
the question is whether it means

3735
02:32:54,670 --> 02:32:50,180
anything and um

3736
02:32:57,889 --> 02:32:54,680
at the moment you know we don't see a a

3737
02:33:01,210 --> 02:32:57,899
good reason for these combinations of

3738
02:33:04,070 --> 02:33:01,220
numbers to be that large for example

3739
02:33:06,889 --> 02:33:04,080
involving Newton's constant which is a

3740
02:33:10,130 --> 02:33:06,899
small number and the electron Mass the

3741
02:33:11,690 --> 02:33:10,140
electron charge and so forth and the

3742
02:33:15,230 --> 02:33:11,700
thing is in the standard model of

3743
02:33:17,809 --> 02:33:15,240
particle physics all these constants do

3744
02:33:20,690 --> 02:33:17,819
not have an explanation they are just

3745
02:33:22,690 --> 02:33:20,700
measured quantities and we don't have an

3746
02:33:25,990 --> 02:33:22,700
underlying theory that

3747
02:33:28,370 --> 02:33:26,000
explains those constants so

3748
02:33:31,190 --> 02:33:28,380
we don't know what the origin of the

3749
02:33:34,130 --> 02:33:31,200
large numbers is and one possibility is

3750
02:33:37,309 --> 02:33:34,140
that we wouldn't exist as intelligent

3751
02:33:39,770 --> 02:33:37,319
beings thinking about it if these

3752
02:33:41,690 --> 02:33:39,780
numbers did not have their values so

3753
02:33:44,150 --> 02:33:41,700
some people are thinking about the

3754
02:33:46,670 --> 02:33:44,160
Multiverse the idea that there might be

3755
02:33:49,490 --> 02:33:46,680
other regions of space and time were

3756
02:33:51,950 --> 02:33:49,500
these parameters obtain different values

3757
02:33:55,070 --> 02:33:51,960
and the question is whether life

3758
02:33:57,290 --> 02:33:55,080
intelligent life could exist there and

3759
02:33:58,969 --> 02:33:57,300
in most of them no the answer is no

3760
02:34:01,610 --> 02:33:58,979
because for example example the universe

3761
02:34:03,170 --> 02:34:01,620
would expand too rapidly and you

3762
02:34:05,690 --> 02:34:03,180
wouldn't be able to make stars and

3763
02:34:08,510 --> 02:34:05,700
planets next to them so that we can have

3764
02:34:10,450 --> 02:34:08,520
Life as We Know It This doesn't exclude

3765
02:34:14,330 --> 02:34:10,460
intelligence from appearing in other

3766
02:34:16,550 --> 02:34:14,340
regions with other constants because you

3767
02:34:18,469 --> 02:34:16,560
know there might be other paths to

3768
02:34:22,550 --> 02:34:18,479
intelligence that we are not familiar

3769
02:34:24,410 --> 02:34:22,560
with and so I would argue that until we

3770
02:34:27,110 --> 02:34:24,420
have a theory that explains the

3771
02:34:30,110 --> 02:34:27,120
constants that we measure it's premature

3772
02:34:31,450 --> 02:34:30,120
of us to make sense of it and so let's

3773
02:34:35,570 --> 02:34:31,460
just wait

3774
02:34:37,130 --> 02:34:35,580
what are the pros and cons of peer

3775
02:34:43,389 --> 02:34:37,140
review

3776
02:34:46,870 --> 02:34:43,399
your ideas and and the comments are

3777
02:34:49,250 --> 02:34:46,880
tested or at least evaluated by other

3778
02:34:52,849 --> 02:34:49,260
Professionals in in your field of

3779
02:34:55,010 --> 02:34:52,859
expertise so the pro is that um if there

3780
02:34:57,770 --> 02:34:55,020
is any mistake or if there is some

3781
02:35:00,110 --> 02:34:57,780
Omission it could be pointed out by the

3782
02:35:04,250 --> 02:35:00,120
reviewers of the scientific paper that

3783
02:35:06,889 --> 02:35:04,260
one is writing the cons are obvious that

3784
02:35:09,290 --> 02:35:06,899
sometimes there is a dogma and many of

3785
02:35:12,429 --> 02:35:09,300
the mainstream scientists abide by the

3786
02:35:16,370 --> 02:35:12,439
dog mine as a result they dismiss

3787
02:35:19,610 --> 02:35:16,380
Alternatives simply because they feel a

3788
02:35:22,190 --> 02:35:19,620
threat to their field of expertise and

3789
02:35:26,210 --> 02:35:22,200
many many scientists establish their

3790
02:35:29,389 --> 02:35:26,220
self-esteem and their uh stature based

3791
02:35:31,010 --> 02:35:29,399
on past knowledge uh things that they

3792
02:35:33,110 --> 02:35:31,020
worked on for decades and they

3793
02:35:35,090 --> 02:35:33,120
established through their work and if

3794
02:35:37,790 --> 02:35:35,100
there is a new statement being made that

3795
02:35:39,830 --> 02:35:37,800
could in principle doubt why what is

3796
02:35:42,410 --> 02:35:39,840
being known or at least suggests that

3797
02:35:44,630 --> 02:35:42,420
it's incomplete they feel threatened

3798
02:35:47,809 --> 02:35:44,640
they feel their ego feels threatened and

3799
02:35:49,730 --> 02:35:47,819
as a result they resist change and that

3800
02:35:53,770 --> 02:35:49,740
happened many times in science where

3801
02:35:57,410 --> 02:35:53,780
ideas were pushed aside just because

3802
02:36:02,110 --> 02:35:57,420
they threatened the dogma and of course

3803
02:36:05,389 --> 02:36:02,120
that's the con of peer review however

3804
02:36:08,710 --> 02:36:05,399
over time you know if if at least there

3805
02:36:11,690 --> 02:36:08,720
is a way to document the findings

3806
02:36:15,889 --> 02:36:11,700
other people may look at them later on

3807
02:36:18,770 --> 02:36:15,899
and eventually they might Prevail so

3808
02:36:21,469 --> 02:36:18,780
um however you know it obviously slows

3809
02:36:24,710 --> 02:36:21,479
down the progress of science if every

3810
02:36:27,050 --> 02:36:24,720
suggestion is being moderated by the

3811
02:36:28,790 --> 02:36:27,060
experts and for that purpose you know

3812
02:36:30,889 --> 02:36:28,800
it's possible to have a different scheme

3813
02:36:33,230 --> 02:36:30,899
where there is an archive on the

3814
02:36:36,050 --> 02:36:33,240
internet where papers are being posted

3815
02:36:38,630 --> 02:36:36,060
not necessarily rejected that firsthand

3816
02:36:41,330 --> 02:36:38,640
and we do have such an archive but

3817
02:36:44,030 --> 02:36:41,340
unfortunately it's also moderated there

3818
02:36:45,770 --> 02:36:44,040
are people practitioners of the field

3819
02:36:48,469 --> 02:36:45,780
who decide without any peer review

3820
02:36:51,290 --> 02:36:48,479
without any back and forth with the

3821
02:36:55,130 --> 02:36:51,300
authors they decide if a submission is

3822
02:36:57,110 --> 02:36:55,140
worth posting which again is even more

3823
02:36:59,450 --> 02:36:57,120
dangerous than peer review because they

3824
02:37:02,030 --> 02:36:59,460
don't have to explain it to the authors

3825
02:37:04,610 --> 02:37:02,040
so I would argue in favor of having

3826
02:37:07,610 --> 02:37:04,620
since you know uh papers on the internet

3827
02:37:09,290 --> 02:37:07,620
do not cost money do not cost much

3828
02:37:12,349 --> 02:37:09,300
computer

3829
02:37:14,870 --> 02:37:12,359
space Power you know in over there in

3830
02:37:18,950 --> 02:37:14,880
the cloud that that we will have a

3831
02:37:21,349 --> 02:37:18,960
better system where ideas will be uh

3832
02:37:25,730 --> 02:37:21,359
exposed to to the community at large

3833
02:37:27,590 --> 02:37:25,740
without being blocked by experts I think

3834
02:37:29,990 --> 02:37:27,600
that would be the best scheme

3835
02:37:32,450 --> 02:37:30,000
have you tried to publish on archive and

3836
02:37:37,849 --> 02:37:32,460
it was rejected

3837
02:37:40,670 --> 02:37:37,859
well um uh no but there was for example

3838
02:37:42,710 --> 02:37:40,680
a submission recently about the Galileo

3839
02:37:45,349 --> 02:37:42,720
project where I described the project as

3840
02:37:48,530 --> 02:37:45,359
a whole which is a scientific project uh

3841
02:37:51,889 --> 02:37:48,540
and it has been held by the moderators

3842
02:37:54,410 --> 02:37:51,899
for almost a month now uh they are not

3843
02:37:56,929 --> 02:37:54,420
posting it and I find that strange

3844
02:38:00,050 --> 02:37:56,939
because there are lots of papers in fact

3845
02:38:01,090 --> 02:38:00,060
on the archive there was recently a

3846
02:38:05,830 --> 02:38:01,100
paper

3847
02:38:11,630 --> 02:38:05,840
saying that based on a poll a survey of

3848
02:38:14,389 --> 02:38:11,640
UK's astronomers that most of them were

3849
02:38:17,210 --> 02:38:14,399
motivated to enter astronomy as a result

3850
02:38:20,150 --> 02:38:17,220
of being fascinated by science fiction

3851
02:38:22,010 --> 02:38:20,160
okay so that paper reporting about the

3852
02:38:24,710 --> 02:38:22,020
Paul of UK astronomers that were

3853
02:38:27,469 --> 02:38:24,720
fascinated by science fiction is posted

3854
02:38:29,809 --> 02:38:27,479
on the same day on the archive whereas

3855
02:38:34,969 --> 02:38:29,819
the description of a scientific project

3856
02:38:37,490 --> 02:38:34,979
to explore UAP is being moderated for a

3857
02:38:40,130 --> 02:38:37,500
month now on the archive and you ask

3858
02:38:41,870 --> 02:38:40,140
yourself is there some agenda behind it

3859
02:38:45,730 --> 02:38:41,880
or what what could be the reason for

3860
02:38:51,830 --> 02:38:49,070
now speaking of Dogma

3861
02:38:54,889 --> 02:38:51,840
there's a viewer question his name is

3862
02:38:57,530 --> 02:38:54,899
clab's Petter and he wants to know what

3863
02:38:59,929 --> 02:38:57,540
things in cosmology do we assume are a

3864
02:39:01,250 --> 02:38:59,939
true that we can't prove nor disprove

3865
02:39:04,490 --> 02:39:01,260
besides

3866
02:39:07,550 --> 02:39:04,500
inflation and brains so maybe ads CFT

3867
02:39:10,730 --> 02:39:07,560
what are the religious doctrines of

3868
02:39:16,370 --> 02:39:13,969
so for example uh the Multiverse is an

3869
02:39:18,469 --> 02:39:16,380
excellent example of an area in

3870
02:39:20,270 --> 02:39:18,479
cosmology that cannot be proven or

3871
02:39:24,070 --> 02:39:20,280
disproven because we don't have access

3872
02:39:26,929 --> 02:39:24,080
to regions of space and time beyond the

3873
02:39:28,510 --> 02:39:26,939
observable volume of the universe light

3874
02:39:32,990 --> 02:39:28,520
could not have

3875
02:39:34,150 --> 02:39:33,000
gone across a distance greater than the

3876
02:39:37,309 --> 02:39:34,160
Horizon

3877
02:39:39,230 --> 02:39:37,319
over the time since the big bang and so

3878
02:39:41,990 --> 02:39:39,240
there are these I would call

3879
02:39:44,389 --> 02:39:42,000
speculations that are origins of space

3880
02:39:46,550 --> 02:39:44,399
and time Far Beyond the Horizon that we

3881
02:39:47,929 --> 02:39:46,560
can see where conditions are very

3882
02:39:49,490 --> 02:39:47,939
different and perhaps the fundamental

3883
02:39:52,429 --> 02:39:49,500
constants are different perhaps the laws

3884
02:39:56,330 --> 02:39:52,439
of physics are different uh this

3885
02:39:59,750 --> 02:39:56,340
discussion of the Multiverse has no is

3886
02:40:01,790 --> 02:39:59,760
not substantiated by any evidence and it

3887
02:40:03,110 --> 02:40:01,800
it doesn't appear more credible than

3888
02:40:06,830 --> 02:40:03,120
philosophy

3889
02:40:09,469 --> 02:40:06,840
uh or theology because it has no way of

3890
02:40:11,690 --> 02:40:09,479
being disproven uh of course some people

3891
02:40:15,230 --> 02:40:11,700
say maybe one day we will come up with a

3892
02:40:19,730 --> 02:40:15,240
way to test it fine until that day comes

3893
02:40:21,110 --> 02:40:19,740
I don't see it as part of uh falsifiable

3894
02:40:25,190 --> 02:40:21,120
physics

3895
02:40:28,190 --> 02:40:25,200
um and of course Cosmic inflation is a

3896
02:40:30,410 --> 02:40:28,200
paradigm that in principle can be proven

3897
02:40:34,429 --> 02:40:30,420
right for example if we find

3898
02:40:38,090 --> 02:40:34,439
gravitational waves from inflation that

3899
02:40:40,730 --> 02:40:38,100
the theory predicts at different levels

3900
02:40:43,490 --> 02:40:40,740
depending on the inflaton the the field

3901
02:40:45,770 --> 02:40:43,500
that drove inflation so you can always

3902
02:40:48,410 --> 02:40:45,780
design models of inflation that would

3903
02:40:50,510 --> 02:40:48,420
produce undetectable signals but in all

3904
02:40:53,450 --> 02:40:50,520
of them there is some gravitational wave

3905
02:40:55,309 --> 02:40:53,460
background and we are seeking it uh

3906
02:40:57,950 --> 02:40:55,319
investing millions of dollars in the

3907
02:41:00,050 --> 02:40:57,960
search for them I should say that there

3908
02:41:01,849 --> 02:41:00,060
is also a way of disproving the Paradigm

3909
02:41:05,270 --> 02:41:01,859
of inflation altogether

3910
02:41:07,190 --> 02:41:05,280
and the way to do that is to look for a

3911
02:41:08,929 --> 02:41:07,200
gravitational wave background of the

3912
02:41:11,389 --> 02:41:08,939
type of the cosmic microwave background

3913
02:41:17,150 --> 02:41:11,399
we wrote a paper about it just last week

3914
02:41:20,630 --> 02:41:17,160
with a postdoc uh named Sunny blacknosi

3915
02:41:23,570 --> 02:41:20,640
uh and we basically said that at the

3916
02:41:26,150 --> 02:41:23,580
plank time uh the universe was immersed

3917
02:41:27,530 --> 02:41:26,160
in uh a gravitational wave background

3918
02:41:28,969 --> 02:41:27,540
just like the cosmic microwave

3919
02:41:30,410 --> 02:41:28,979
background but in gravitational waves

3920
02:41:33,349 --> 02:41:30,420
because of its very high temperature

3921
02:41:35,570 --> 02:41:33,359
close to the plant temperature now the

3922
02:41:38,210 --> 02:41:35,580
theory of inflation says after that

3923
02:41:41,150 --> 02:41:38,220
Planck time there was a period where the

3924
02:41:43,730 --> 02:41:41,160
universe expanded exponentially or very

3925
02:41:46,010 --> 02:41:43,740
fast faster than light and any such

3926
02:41:47,690 --> 02:41:46,020
background would have been diluted we

3927
02:41:49,389 --> 02:41:47,700
wouldn't have it around today because

3928
02:41:52,849 --> 02:41:49,399
there was this

3929
02:41:54,710 --> 02:41:52,859
immense expansion of the volume of the

3930
02:41:57,230 --> 02:41:54,720
universe and therefore inflation

3931
02:41:58,969 --> 02:41:57,240
predicts that we won't find any

3932
02:42:01,190 --> 02:41:58,979
gravitational wave background at high

3933
02:42:02,750 --> 02:42:01,200
frequencies similar to The Cosmic

3934
02:42:06,050 --> 02:42:02,760
microwave background of

3935
02:42:07,790 --> 02:42:06,060
electromagnetic radiation and if we

3936
02:42:10,730 --> 02:42:07,800
search for it and we discussed in this

3937
02:42:13,429 --> 02:42:10,740
paper how one can search for it in case

3938
02:42:15,650 --> 02:42:13,439
we find it that would disprove that

3939
02:42:18,170 --> 02:42:15,660
there was an Epoch of exponential

3940
02:42:20,510 --> 02:42:18,180
expansion or inflation or super luminal

3941
02:42:23,389 --> 02:42:20,520
faster than light expansion during an

3942
02:42:26,210 --> 02:42:23,399
Epoch of cosmic inflation so there is a

3943
02:42:29,210 --> 02:42:26,220
way of either proving inflation or

3944
02:42:31,250 --> 02:42:29,220
disproving the entire Paradigm just by

3945
02:42:33,710 --> 02:42:31,260
searching for gravitational waves so in

3946
02:42:38,030 --> 02:42:33,720
a way that's a scientific theory you can

3947
02:42:40,929 --> 02:42:38,040
either prove it or disprove it now there

3948
02:42:44,630 --> 02:42:40,939
are other aspects of

3949
02:42:48,050 --> 02:42:44,640
the early Universe which are also in

3950
02:42:49,610 --> 02:42:48,060
principle testable for example imagine a

3951
02:42:51,230 --> 02:42:49,620
universe where inflation didn't take

3952
02:42:53,510 --> 02:42:51,240
place but there was a bounce the

3953
02:42:57,230 --> 02:42:53,520
universe contracted before that and then

3954
02:43:00,050 --> 02:42:57,240
there was a bounce uh that kind of a

3955
02:43:03,170 --> 02:43:00,060
theory makes other predictions that can

3956
02:43:06,889 --> 02:43:03,180
be tested so all together you know there

3957
02:43:10,190 --> 02:43:06,899
are ways to test what happened around

3958
02:43:12,170 --> 02:43:10,200
the Big Bang how but it's very difficult

3959
02:43:14,030 --> 02:43:12,180
to test what happens Beyond this the

3960
02:43:15,650 --> 02:43:14,040
region of space and time that we can

3961
02:43:17,570 --> 02:43:15,660
probe right now

3962
02:43:19,730 --> 02:43:17,580
thank you and I'll put a link to that

3963
02:43:22,070 --> 02:43:19,740
paper in the description so this one is

3964
02:43:24,170 --> 02:43:22,080
from a user named mathematical

3965
02:43:26,210 --> 02:43:24,180
metaphysics he says I don't know if this

3966
02:43:28,849 --> 02:43:26,220
has been asked before but has Avi

3967
02:43:30,410 --> 02:43:28,859
experienced any thing close to what's

3968
02:43:34,429 --> 02:43:30,420
paranormal

3969
02:43:41,090 --> 02:43:38,710
I never had such an experience and

3970
02:43:42,429 --> 02:43:41,100
therefore you cannot regard me as an

3971
02:43:45,590 --> 02:43:42,439
experiencer

3972
02:43:47,770 --> 02:43:45,600
and moreover I do believe that the

3973
02:43:53,510 --> 02:43:47,780
scientific instruments are much more

3974
02:43:55,969 --> 02:43:53,520
reliable than humans as detectors so I

3975
02:43:58,190 --> 02:43:55,979
don't need to experience it myself all I

3976
02:44:02,270 --> 02:43:58,200
want is the for example the Galileo

3977
02:44:06,770 --> 02:44:02,280
project instruments to detect an unusual

3978
02:44:10,790 --> 02:44:06,780
uh set of data that would indicate an

3979
02:44:14,570 --> 02:44:10,800
object that is not naturally uh

3980
02:44:18,469 --> 02:44:14,580
in the atmosphere like not a bird not a

3981
02:44:20,929 --> 02:44:18,479
bug not a meteor not a thunderstorm and

3982
02:44:24,730 --> 02:44:20,939
it's not human-made it's not a drone not

3983
02:44:28,670 --> 02:44:24,740
an airplane not a satellite or

3984
02:44:31,309 --> 02:44:28,680
anything else of that sort but but it

3985
02:44:33,290 --> 02:44:31,319
looks unusual and for me that would be

3986
02:44:35,809 --> 02:44:33,300
credible evidence I don't need to

3987
02:44:37,790 --> 02:44:35,819
experience it myself except I want to

3988
02:44:39,889 --> 02:44:37,800
see the instruments detecting it and

3989
02:44:41,929 --> 02:44:39,899
that I think will bring the subject to

3990
02:44:44,270 --> 02:44:41,939
the mainstream of science so it will

3991
02:44:47,150 --> 02:44:44,280
serve a very important purpose of

3992
02:44:50,830 --> 02:44:47,160
validating what experiences

3993
02:44:53,870 --> 02:44:50,840
claim uh I don't

3994
02:44:57,410 --> 02:44:53,880
have any opinion about the experiences

3995
02:44:59,330 --> 02:44:57,420
reported I I don't dismiss them uh I

3996
02:45:01,490 --> 02:44:59,340
would like to find

3997
02:45:03,950 --> 02:45:01,500
evidence for for whatever they talk

3998
02:45:07,250 --> 02:45:03,960
about through scientific instrumentation

3999
02:45:10,309 --> 02:45:07,260
because it's not subject to any biases

4000
02:45:12,650 --> 02:45:10,319
that humans have

4001
02:45:15,170 --> 02:45:12,660
now in this instrumentation do you

4002
02:45:17,510 --> 02:45:15,180
happen to have any analysis or people

4003
02:45:19,010 --> 02:45:17,520
who are experts on metamaterials and if

4004
02:45:21,770 --> 02:45:19,020
not do you plan on getting them in for

4005
02:45:25,730 --> 02:45:21,780
the Galileo project

4006
02:45:28,670 --> 02:45:25,740
we do have the Gary Nolan as a member of

4007
02:45:30,290 --> 02:45:28,680
our research team and if we do find the

4008
02:45:33,110 --> 02:45:30,300
materials that are of unusual

4009
02:45:36,110 --> 02:45:33,120
composition will definitely bring it to

4010
02:45:38,090 --> 02:45:36,120
his attention for example when we scoop

4011
02:45:41,210 --> 02:45:38,100
the ocean floor named Papua New Guinea

4012
02:45:43,550 --> 02:45:41,220
if we find that the fragments from the

4013
02:45:46,309 --> 02:45:43,560
first Interstellar meteor were made of

4014
02:45:48,830 --> 02:45:46,319
some very unusual composition will bring

4015
02:45:49,790 --> 02:45:48,840
it to the laboratory of Gary Norton for

4016
02:45:52,190 --> 02:45:49,800
sure

4017
02:45:55,130 --> 02:45:52,200
this question comes from user Swift

4018
02:45:57,349 --> 02:45:55,140
wisdom for Avi Professor Gary Nolan

4019
02:45:59,150 --> 02:45:57,359
recently gave an interview with Ross

4020
02:46:01,010 --> 02:45:59,160
coldheart and stated that the phenomenon

4021
02:46:03,110 --> 02:46:01,020
is definitely not human and if people

4022
02:46:05,690 --> 02:46:03,120
saw the evidence he had seen they would

4023
02:46:07,550 --> 02:46:05,700
come to a similar conclusion that the

4024
02:46:09,950 --> 02:46:07,560
phenomenon is a non-material form of

4025
02:46:11,870 --> 02:46:09,960
Consciousness so what is a non-material

4026
02:46:14,150 --> 02:46:11,880
form of Consciousness and what does avi

4027
02:46:16,250 --> 02:46:14,160
think of Gary's position now of course

4028
02:46:18,590 --> 02:46:16,260
just so that this is clear

4029
02:46:20,030 --> 02:46:18,600
I'm reading a quote from someone and I

4030
02:46:23,150 --> 02:46:20,040
haven't verified this quote myself so

4031
02:46:30,349 --> 02:46:27,349
so my view of Consciousness is that it's

4032
02:46:32,630 --> 02:46:30,359
an emergent phenomena of

4033
02:46:36,050 --> 02:46:32,640
the human body the human body is very

4034
02:46:37,910 --> 02:46:36,060
complex especially the human brain and I

4035
02:46:42,230 --> 02:46:37,920
don't think there is anything beyond

4036
02:46:45,889 --> 02:46:42,240
what the the physical composition of the

4037
02:46:48,349 --> 02:46:45,899
human body is uh so when people die I I

4038
02:46:50,570 --> 02:46:48,359
think of it just like unplugging a

4039
02:46:52,190 --> 02:46:50,580
computer from the outlet they it stops

4040
02:46:54,710 --> 02:46:52,200
operating and

4041
02:46:57,050 --> 02:46:54,720
um and then obviously what we call

4042
02:46:59,750 --> 02:46:57,060
Consciousness is a result of our brain

4043
02:47:01,610 --> 02:46:59,760
being very complex and one way to

4044
02:47:04,429 --> 02:47:01,620
demonstrate that is to build a computer

4045
02:47:07,610 --> 02:47:04,439
out of Hardware which is just materials

4046
02:47:10,429 --> 02:47:07,620
we find around and we put together and

4047
02:47:14,090 --> 02:47:10,439
then get to the level of sentient

4048
02:47:16,010 --> 02:47:14,100
artificial intelligence systems if the

4049
02:47:19,570 --> 02:47:16,020
artificial intelligence system will

4050
02:47:21,950 --> 02:47:19,580
behave in a way that resembles a human

4051
02:47:26,090 --> 02:47:21,960
we could declare it as having

4052
02:47:28,010 --> 02:47:26,100
Consciousness and uh I subscribe to the

4053
02:47:31,670 --> 02:47:28,020
Turing test in the sense that suppose

4054
02:47:33,889 --> 02:47:31,680
out of a thousand people 900 199 of them

4055
02:47:37,130 --> 02:47:33,899
would think through a conversation

4056
02:47:39,530 --> 02:47:37,140
through interactions with an AI system

4057
02:47:41,750 --> 02:47:39,540
would believe that the AI system is a

4058
02:47:44,809 --> 02:47:41,760
human without us telling them in advance

4059
02:47:47,150 --> 02:47:44,819
that would be good enough as far as I'm

4060
02:47:50,570 --> 02:47:47,160
concerned for defining it as sentient

4061
02:47:53,630 --> 02:47:50,580
now even if the AI System is using data

4062
02:47:55,730 --> 02:47:53,640
sets from the internet to respond

4063
02:47:57,290 --> 02:47:55,740
to the human I don't care about it

4064
02:48:00,170 --> 02:47:57,300
because maybe the human brain is doing

4065
02:48:03,290 --> 02:48:00,180
the same as long as it appears to be

4066
02:48:06,230 --> 02:48:03,300
like a human that's all that matters

4067
02:48:07,969 --> 02:48:06,240
because we don't know when we interact

4068
02:48:11,389 --> 02:48:07,979
with another human we don't know how the

4069
02:48:13,550 --> 02:48:11,399
processing is done in the brain of

4070
02:48:16,130 --> 02:48:13,560
information and how how Consciousness

4071
02:48:18,650 --> 02:48:16,140
comes into play so I would say we should

4072
02:48:21,050 --> 02:48:18,660
just compare it to the experience with a

4073
02:48:24,770 --> 02:48:21,060
human and if it behaves in a way that is

4074
02:48:26,650 --> 02:48:24,780
indistinguishable to 999 people out of a

4075
02:48:30,170 --> 02:48:26,660
thousand I would say it's good enough

4076
02:48:32,750 --> 02:48:30,180
and at that point you know it would be

4077
02:48:35,150 --> 02:48:32,760
sentient and it would be clear that we

4078
02:48:38,570 --> 02:48:35,160
constructed this AI system out of

4079
02:48:40,849 --> 02:48:38,580
materials so it would make sense to say

4080
02:48:43,790 --> 02:48:40,859
the human body is similar it's

4081
02:48:46,670 --> 02:48:43,800
constructed of materials and yet it

4082
02:48:47,950 --> 02:48:46,680
displays what we call Consciousness or

4083
02:48:51,530 --> 02:48:47,960
free will

4084
02:48:53,570 --> 02:48:51,540
and that's a signature of very complex

4085
02:48:55,670 --> 02:48:53,580
systems complex enough and by the way

4086
02:48:58,309 --> 02:48:55,680
the AI system could learn from

4087
02:49:01,610 --> 02:48:58,319
experience so you can see it started

4088
02:49:04,670 --> 02:49:01,620
just like you give birth to a child and

4089
02:49:06,349 --> 02:49:04,680
early on you educate the child so the AI

4090
02:49:07,790 --> 02:49:06,359
system could learn from experience

4091
02:49:09,950 --> 02:49:07,800
through machine learning and you can

4092
02:49:13,670 --> 02:49:09,960
educate it just like you educate a child

4093
02:49:15,889 --> 02:49:13,680
so early on it might imitate you but

4094
02:49:18,110 --> 02:49:15,899
eventually it will acquire the qualities

4095
02:49:20,929 --> 02:49:18,120
of a person an adult that goes into the

4096
02:49:24,770 --> 02:49:20,939
world and interacts with the world on

4097
02:49:27,170 --> 02:49:24,780
its own and so in that sense I would not

4098
02:49:31,670 --> 02:49:27,180
see a difference between a sentient AI

4099
02:49:33,110 --> 02:49:31,680
system and humans and and therefore I

4100
02:49:36,349 --> 02:49:33,120
would not think that there is a

4101
02:49:40,490 --> 02:49:36,359
non-material form of Consciousness and

4102
02:49:43,429 --> 02:49:40,500
therefore when seeking uh an explanation

4103
02:49:45,770 --> 02:49:43,439
for unidentified objects I would assume

4104
02:49:48,230 --> 02:49:45,780
that if they behave as sentient entities

4105
02:49:50,450 --> 02:49:48,240
that they are equipped with artificial

4106
02:49:53,510 --> 02:49:50,460
intelligence you know that it's just

4107
02:49:56,270 --> 02:49:53,520
devices that are even more sophisticated

4108
02:49:58,910 --> 02:49:56,280
the ones we can we will produce in the

4109
02:50:01,790 --> 02:49:58,920
next decade and it would be interesting

4110
02:50:05,170 --> 02:50:01,800
because it will open a new frontier of

4111
02:50:07,490 --> 02:50:05,180
artificial intelligence from our side

4112
02:50:09,469 --> 02:50:07,500
interacting with artificial intelligence

4113
02:50:14,510 --> 02:50:09,479
from their side

4114
02:50:16,370 --> 02:50:14,520
and I call it a i a i interaction which

4115
02:50:18,710 --> 02:50:16,380
is a third category that was not

4116
02:50:21,469 --> 02:50:18,720
envisioned by the philosopher Martin

4117
02:50:25,010 --> 02:50:21,479
buber who talked about an interaction of

4118
02:50:27,130 --> 02:50:25,020
a human with an object he called it I it

4119
02:50:31,309 --> 02:50:27,140
interaction or relation

4120
02:50:32,929 --> 02:50:31,319
and he distinguished that from an i you

4121
02:50:35,690 --> 02:50:32,939
interaction an interaction of a human

4122
02:50:38,630 --> 02:50:35,700
with a human or of a human with God

4123
02:50:40,910 --> 02:50:38,640
which is the Eternal you and he did not

4124
02:50:45,590 --> 02:50:40,920
Envision back a century ago when he

4125
02:50:47,690 --> 02:50:45,600
wrote his book I and though in 1923 he

4126
02:50:49,490 --> 02:50:47,700
did not Envision a third category which

4127
02:50:53,270 --> 02:50:49,500
I think will might come into play with

4128
02:50:56,050 --> 02:50:53,280
which is AI interacting with AI which

4129
02:50:58,010 --> 02:50:56,060
may reflect our first interaction with

4130
02:51:01,030 --> 02:50:58,020
artificial intelligence from an

4131
02:51:03,469 --> 02:51:01,040
extraterrestrial origin so I can imagine

4132
02:51:06,170 --> 02:51:03,479
universities establishing new

4133
02:51:08,929 --> 02:51:06,180
departments instead of a department of

4134
02:51:12,050 --> 02:51:08,939
psychology it would be a department of

4135
02:51:15,830 --> 02:51:12,060
Interstate Stellar psychology meaning

4136
02:51:18,410 --> 02:51:15,840
trying to understand sentient beings

4137
02:51:21,710 --> 02:51:18,420
which are basically AI systems that were

4138
02:51:24,469 --> 02:51:21,720
sent to us from an exoplanet

4139
02:51:26,510 --> 02:51:24,479
so what if your wife says to you Avi

4140
02:51:28,790 --> 02:51:26,520
just so you know come to this room she

4141
02:51:31,490 --> 02:51:28,800
opens the room it's a secret room in

4142
02:51:33,530 --> 02:51:31,500
your house cameras and TVs are revealed

4143
02:51:36,230 --> 02:51:33,540
then she says I've been appearing to

4144
02:51:38,809 --> 02:51:36,240
love you it's all fake I'm hired by the

4145
02:51:40,670 --> 02:51:38,819
government after this I will go continue

4146
02:51:41,929 --> 02:51:40,680
to show you love in the same way but

4147
02:51:44,150 --> 02:51:41,939
just so you know I don't actually feel

4148
02:51:45,469 --> 02:51:44,160
it I'm hired we're going to I'm going to

4149
02:51:47,270 --> 02:51:45,479
leave this room and everything will go

4150
02:51:50,450 --> 02:51:47,280
back to the exact same way it was before

4151
02:51:52,130 --> 02:51:50,460
I'll say the exact same words I'll give

4152
02:51:53,809 --> 02:51:52,140
the exact same facial expressions and

4153
02:51:55,550 --> 02:51:53,819
perform the same Acts

4154
02:51:58,250 --> 02:51:55,560
do you still think that the outward

4155
02:52:00,530 --> 02:51:58,260
Behavior implies the internal feeling or

4156
02:52:02,330 --> 02:52:00,540
do you have objections like hey wife

4157
02:52:04,309 --> 02:52:02,340
this is wait a minute this is no longer

4158
02:52:06,710 --> 02:52:04,319
authentic I can't continue in the same

4159
02:52:09,590 --> 02:52:06,720
way it was before

4160
02:52:11,750 --> 02:52:09,600
yeah so definitely the big picture makes

4161
02:52:14,990 --> 02:52:11,760
a difference for me because I always

4162
02:52:16,969 --> 02:52:15,000
think about the big picture if my wife

4163
02:52:19,490 --> 02:52:16,979
would come to me and say that she was

4164
02:52:21,550 --> 02:52:19,500
just playing it like an actor that would

4165
02:52:24,230 --> 02:52:21,560
make a difference for me it's just like

4166
02:52:26,870 --> 02:52:24,240
participating in a play where you play a

4167
02:52:29,990 --> 02:52:26,880
role and that role does not represent

4168
02:52:32,809 --> 02:52:30,000
you necessarily so yes I would not be in

4169
02:52:36,410 --> 02:52:32,819
love with an actor who displays love to

4170
02:52:39,130 --> 02:52:36,420
me uh I would prefer to be in love with

4171
02:52:42,469 --> 02:52:39,140
a person who lives life

4172
02:52:44,929 --> 02:52:42,479
in an authentic way so definitely that

4173
02:52:47,809 --> 02:52:44,939
would make a difference and you can

4174
02:52:50,230 --> 02:52:47,819
generalize it to experiences we have and

4175
02:52:52,969 --> 02:52:50,240
like for example if

4176
02:52:54,769 --> 02:52:52,979
the government tricks us to believe in

4177
02:52:57,590 --> 02:52:54,779
some notion and it doesn't seem to be

4178
02:53:00,349 --> 02:52:57,600
real I would be upset about it and as a

4179
02:53:02,590 --> 02:53:00,359
scientist that's why I prefer not to pay

4180
02:53:05,690 --> 02:53:02,600
attention to social media

4181
02:53:07,150 --> 02:53:05,700
and focus on evidence and facts because

4182
02:53:10,910 --> 02:53:07,160
nature in my

4183
02:53:12,410 --> 02:53:10,920
view is authentic uh whatever you know

4184
02:53:14,690 --> 02:53:12,420
when I jog in the morning when I

4185
02:53:17,630 --> 02:53:14,700
interact with nature it always appears

4186
02:53:19,730 --> 02:53:17,640
to me as sincere straightforward whereas

4187
02:53:23,090 --> 02:53:19,740
people are not always that way they

4188
02:53:25,670 --> 02:53:23,100
sometimes have an ulterior motive or a

4189
02:53:27,769 --> 02:53:25,680
hidden agenda that's why I prefer to use

4190
02:53:29,929 --> 02:53:27,779
instruments to learn about nature

4191
02:53:32,510 --> 02:53:29,939
because they don't have a hidden agenda

4192
02:53:35,450 --> 02:53:32,520
and they don't have a Prejudice or an

4193
02:53:40,790 --> 02:53:35,460
ego associated with them and moreover

4194
02:53:43,250 --> 02:53:40,800
you know I prefer to explore the facts

4195
02:53:45,950 --> 02:53:43,260
to guide us and just to give you an

4196
02:53:48,650 --> 02:53:45,960
example the expedition to Papua New

4197
02:53:51,349 --> 02:53:48,660
Guinea was based on three scientific

4198
02:53:53,510 --> 02:53:51,359
papers that we published submitted for

4199
02:53:56,389 --> 02:53:53,520
publication two of them but one of them

4200
02:53:57,490 --> 02:53:56,399
was accepted for publication already and

4201
02:54:03,110 --> 02:53:57,500
then

4202
02:54:05,330 --> 02:54:03,120
it was featured on NPR and as a result a

4203
02:54:06,710 --> 02:54:05,340
few non-scientists people who do not

4204
02:54:10,269 --> 02:54:06,720
Practice Science

4205
02:54:14,030 --> 02:54:10,279
uh decided to make

4206
02:54:18,410 --> 02:54:14,040
some ridiculing comments on Twitter on

4207
02:54:20,570 --> 02:54:18,420
this Expedition uh on a superficial

4208
02:54:28,309 --> 02:54:20,580
uh

4209
02:54:30,410 --> 02:54:28,319
myself is this really what they pretend

4210
02:54:32,269 --> 02:54:30,420
to be because they pretended to protect

4211
02:54:34,610 --> 02:54:32,279
science and argue that this Expedition

4212
02:54:37,010 --> 02:54:34,620
makes little sense but in fact they are

4213
02:54:39,050 --> 02:54:37,020
anti-science because science is about

4214
02:54:41,570 --> 02:54:39,060
seeking evidence this Expedition is

4215
02:54:43,190 --> 02:54:41,580
funded by private donations it doesn't

4216
02:54:45,710 --> 02:54:43,200
take money from any other scientific

4217
02:54:48,710 --> 02:54:45,720
project so the only thing you can do if

4218
02:54:53,450 --> 02:54:48,720
you are pro-science is to upload that

4219
02:54:56,469 --> 02:54:53,460
um to to support it uh and then for

4220
02:55:01,250 --> 02:54:56,479
example if you look at mainstream

4221
02:55:04,130 --> 02:55:01,260
cases of us seeking evidence we looked

4222
02:55:06,710 --> 02:55:04,140
for the nature of dark matter in the

4223
02:55:09,370 --> 02:55:06,720
form of the lightest supersymmetric

4224
02:55:12,290 --> 02:55:09,380
particle by Smashing

4225
02:55:14,870 --> 02:55:12,300
uh Elementary particles at very high

4226
02:55:18,889 --> 02:55:14,880
energies at the Large Hadron Collider

4227
02:55:22,670 --> 02:55:18,899
and we haven't found it okay and so here

4228
02:55:25,330 --> 02:55:22,680
is an example for a search that didn't

4229
02:55:29,030 --> 02:55:25,340
turn out the way we expected it to be

4230
02:55:32,389 --> 02:55:29,040
and then a lot of astronomers are

4231
02:55:35,570 --> 02:55:32,399
investing many hours of on the biggest

4232
02:55:39,530 --> 02:55:35,580
telescopes in the search for planet nine

4233
02:55:44,030 --> 02:55:39,540
they haven't found it okay so why would

4234
02:55:45,710 --> 02:55:44,040
one ridicule an expedition that wants to

4235
02:55:47,809 --> 02:55:45,720
figure out the composition of the first

4236
02:55:50,570 --> 02:55:47,819
intestinal arm meteor which was

4237
02:55:53,769 --> 02:55:50,580
supported by a formal letter from the

4238
02:55:56,929 --> 02:55:53,779
U.S space command while at the same time

4239
02:55:58,849 --> 02:55:56,939
supporting a search for the lightest

4240
02:56:00,969 --> 02:55:58,859
supersymmetric particle with the

4241
02:56:04,070 --> 02:56:00,979
investment of billions of dollars

4242
02:56:06,969 --> 02:56:04,080
support the search for planet nine with

4243
02:56:10,010 --> 02:56:06,979
the investment of huge telescope time

4244
02:56:11,450 --> 02:56:10,020
why are these different from the search

4245
02:56:14,330 --> 02:56:11,460
for the composition of the first

4246
02:56:18,050 --> 02:56:14,340
Interstellar meteor that is escaping me

4247
02:56:22,190 --> 02:56:18,060
the only way I can understand it is some

4248
02:56:25,130 --> 02:56:22,200
people out of jealousy trying to step on

4249
02:56:26,330 --> 02:56:25,140
any flower that rises above the grass

4250
02:56:28,550 --> 02:56:26,340
level

4251
02:56:30,230 --> 02:56:28,560
okay Lastly lastly now if you could run

4252
02:56:31,969 --> 02:56:30,240
the archive we spoke about the archive

4253
02:56:34,130 --> 02:56:31,979
before or if you could speak to the

4254
02:56:37,429 --> 02:56:34,140
moderators who are in charge what would

4255
02:56:43,370 --> 02:56:41,170
regarding the archive I would establish

4256
02:56:45,290 --> 02:56:43,380
categories different categories of

4257
02:56:46,550 --> 02:56:45,300
research that allow

4258
02:56:49,190 --> 02:56:46,560
for

4259
02:56:51,950 --> 02:56:49,200
aspects that go beyond the mainstream

4260
02:56:55,570 --> 02:56:51,960
beyond the conventional wisdom such that

4261
02:56:59,389 --> 02:56:55,580
you know ideas could be floated there

4262
02:57:02,450 --> 02:56:59,399
and let natural selection choose which

4263
02:57:06,610 --> 02:57:02,460
one is accepted by the mainstream

4264
02:57:09,590 --> 02:57:06,620
community so rather than block the

4265
02:57:11,330 --> 02:57:09,600
interaction among scientists of course

4266
02:57:13,309 --> 02:57:11,340
there should be a certain threshold for

4267
02:57:15,950 --> 02:57:13,319
the content you don't want things that

4268
02:57:17,809 --> 02:57:15,960
are not scientific but it's you know

4269
02:57:21,349 --> 02:57:17,819
above some threshold there should be

4270
02:57:23,570 --> 02:57:21,359
free exchange of ideas and by

4271
02:57:26,630 --> 02:57:23,580
establishing those categories that allow

4272
02:57:28,790 --> 02:57:26,640
for that free exchange you could

4273
02:57:30,710 --> 02:57:28,800
accelerate the progress of science

4274
02:57:33,309 --> 02:57:30,720
because you are not blocking you're not

4275
02:57:36,889 --> 02:57:33,319
moderating Innovation

4276
02:57:40,250 --> 02:57:36,899
there is no way for us to know in

4277
02:57:42,370 --> 02:57:40,260
advance which path leads to the truth

4278
02:57:45,710 --> 02:57:42,380
and therefore we should encourage

4279
02:57:48,530 --> 02:57:45,720
rethinking the other risk I see is that

4280
02:57:51,010 --> 02:57:48,540
by blocking deviations from the beaten

4281
02:57:53,450 --> 02:57:51,020
path we are discouraging young people

4282
02:57:57,769 --> 02:57:53,460
from thinking independently because

4283
02:58:00,170 --> 02:57:57,779
those young Scholars realize that you

4284
02:58:02,330 --> 02:58:00,180
know if in order for them to get a job

4285
02:58:04,730 --> 02:58:02,340
they need to subscribe to the main theme

4286
02:58:07,370 --> 02:58:04,740
in order for them to post their papers

4287
02:58:09,889 --> 02:58:07,380
to get their papers published they must

4288
02:58:12,349 --> 02:58:09,899
adhere to whatever guidelines they

4289
02:58:14,330 --> 02:58:12,359
receive from the senior people and that

4290
02:58:15,550 --> 02:58:14,340
to me goes against the spirit of

4291
02:58:17,690 --> 02:58:15,560
innovation

4292
02:58:19,610 --> 02:58:17,700
insides against the spirit of the

4293
02:58:21,830 --> 02:58:19,620
history of science if you look at the

4294
02:58:24,830 --> 02:58:21,840
most important Revelations that we had

4295
02:58:27,950 --> 02:58:24,840
they came from unexpected directions and

4296
02:58:30,769 --> 02:58:27,960
by blocking those we are limiting the

4297
02:58:33,830 --> 02:58:30,779
rate of progress in science so instead

4298
02:58:36,170 --> 02:58:33,840
of that let's allow uh sort of natural

4299
02:58:40,070 --> 02:58:36,180
selection of ideas let's allow the

4300
02:58:44,450 --> 02:58:40,080
community to filter out which ideas are

4301
02:58:46,969 --> 02:58:44,460
worthwhile and which not and host all of

4302
02:58:49,250 --> 02:58:46,979
these suggestions on some categories of

4303
02:58:52,250 --> 02:58:49,260
the archive that allow for Innovation

4304
02:58:54,290 --> 02:58:52,260
which currently do not exist the way

4305
02:58:56,510 --> 02:58:54,300
that I think about this is that if an

4306
02:58:57,950 --> 02:58:56,520
open category exists then it would

4307
02:59:00,410 --> 02:58:57,960
automatically become labeled as

4308
02:59:01,790 --> 02:59:00,420
pseudoscience even if it's not so for

4309
02:59:03,889 --> 02:59:01,800
example there's vixra which is the

4310
02:59:05,929 --> 02:59:03,899
opposite of archive that has I imagine

4311
02:59:08,950 --> 02:59:05,939
valid ideas and then some invalid ones

4312
02:59:11,269 --> 02:59:08,960
but almost all are classified as

4313
02:59:12,830 --> 02:59:11,279
unscientific and vixra is considered to

4314
02:59:15,410 --> 02:59:12,840
be the place where one goes when one

4315
02:59:17,630 --> 02:59:15,420
thinks they have an a scientific idea

4316
02:59:21,290 --> 02:59:17,640
yeah but they actually don't so is there

4317
02:59:30,469 --> 02:59:24,429
no there should be of course a certain

4318
02:59:32,990 --> 02:59:30,479
uh threshold for allowing postings but

4319
02:59:35,330 --> 02:59:33,000
that threshold should not be established

4320
02:59:38,030 --> 02:59:35,340
but by what is accepted by the

4321
02:59:41,510 --> 02:59:38,040
mainstream so in other words if we are

4322
02:59:44,090 --> 02:59:41,520
dealing for example with dark matter so

4323
02:59:45,730 --> 02:59:44,100
um we should not just post papers that

4324
02:59:48,290 --> 02:59:45,740
give

4325
02:59:50,389 --> 02:59:48,300
various suggestions for what the Dark

4326
02:59:52,670 --> 02:59:50,399
Matter might be but we should also allow

4327
02:59:55,969 --> 02:59:52,680
papers that talk about modified gravity

4328
02:59:57,349 --> 02:59:55,979
in various forms and not block them and

4329
03:00:00,230 --> 02:59:57,359
so um

4330
03:00:02,809 --> 03:00:00,240
the way to proceed is to allow a

4331
03:00:04,490 --> 03:00:02,819
conversation among professional

4332
03:00:08,690 --> 03:00:04,500
scientists so I'm not talking about

4333
03:00:10,490 --> 03:00:08,700
allowing you know uh people crackpots

4334
03:00:13,370 --> 03:00:10,500
people that you find often on Twitter

4335
03:00:16,550 --> 03:00:13,380
people that do not publish in science so

4336
03:00:21,170 --> 03:00:16,560
for example one threshold could be that

4337
03:00:23,929 --> 03:00:21,180
uh the the need the paper needs to be

4338
03:00:27,349 --> 03:00:23,939
submitted and reviewed in a respectable

4339
03:00:29,349 --> 03:00:27,359
publication or considered at least in a

4340
03:00:32,269 --> 03:00:29,359
respectable publication and not being

4341
03:00:35,570 --> 03:00:32,279
rejected uh all together because it has

4342
03:00:37,969 --> 03:00:35,580
no substance another approach would be

4343
03:00:40,849 --> 03:00:37,979
to have

4344
03:00:44,290 --> 03:00:40,859
um people with established track record

4345
03:00:45,969 --> 03:00:44,300
on the archive that do not only publish

4346
03:00:48,530 --> 03:00:45,979
uh

4347
03:00:51,349 --> 03:00:48,540
unsubstantiated claims but have also

4348
03:00:53,090 --> 03:00:51,359
other papers of that belong to the

4349
03:00:58,910 --> 03:00:53,100
mainstream so for example if a person

4350
03:01:01,730 --> 03:00:58,920
has let's say 90 or 80 of of their posts

4351
03:01:04,130 --> 03:01:01,740
uh in the mainstream but then 10 to 20

4352
03:01:07,490 --> 03:01:04,140
percent are out of the mainstream one

4353
03:01:10,309 --> 03:01:07,500
should allow such a person to post the

4354
03:01:13,790 --> 03:01:10,319
out of the mainstream ideas because the

4355
03:01:16,130 --> 03:01:13,800
same person is also contributing to the

4356
03:01:18,290 --> 03:01:16,140
mainstream so it's clear that the person

4357
03:01:21,410 --> 03:01:18,300
is trying to figure out solutions to

4358
03:01:23,630 --> 03:01:21,420
some anomalies by deviating every now

4359
03:01:26,330 --> 03:01:23,640
and then from the mainstream so in my

4360
03:01:29,510 --> 03:01:26,340
mind a certain percentage should be

4361
03:01:32,269 --> 03:01:29,520
tolerated let's say 10 20 percent is a

4362
03:01:34,730 --> 03:01:32,279
very reasonable portion of a publication

4363
03:01:37,190 --> 03:01:34,740
record of a person to be allocated to

4364
03:01:39,530 --> 03:01:37,200
risky propositions one should allow for

4365
03:01:42,170 --> 03:01:39,540
that and one can establish such a metric

4366
03:01:46,490 --> 03:01:42,180
and therefore that would filter out all

4367
03:01:49,670 --> 03:01:46,500
the crackpots that would put the older

4368
03:01:52,849 --> 03:01:49,680
papers or other postings on on ideas

4369
03:01:54,710 --> 03:01:52,859
that are completely unsubstantiated

4370
03:01:56,389 --> 03:01:54,720
I imagine that those who are rejecting

4371
03:01:58,190 --> 03:01:56,399
on the archive they wouldn't say well

4372
03:02:00,170 --> 03:01:58,200
I'm doing so because it's not mainstream

4373
03:02:02,990 --> 03:02:00,180
enough they just wouldn't use that word

4374
03:02:04,550 --> 03:02:03,000
or justification they would say that

4375
03:02:07,849 --> 03:02:04,560
it's unscientific or some other synonym

4376
03:02:09,170 --> 03:02:07,859
for unscientific like pseudoscience so I

4377
03:02:12,230 --> 03:02:09,180
know that your solution was about

4378
03:02:14,870 --> 03:02:12,240
mainstream just like in Venture Capital

4379
03:02:19,130 --> 03:02:14,880
Investments I think it does make sense

4380
03:02:22,250 --> 03:02:19,140
to allocate let's say between 10 and 30

4381
03:02:24,469 --> 03:02:22,260
percent of the resources to risky

4382
03:02:26,809 --> 03:02:24,479
propositions and a simple solution in

4383
03:02:30,469 --> 03:02:26,819
the context of the archive would be

4384
03:02:34,070 --> 03:02:30,479
to allow scientists who publish more

4385
03:02:37,250 --> 03:02:34,080
than 70 percent of their papers to allow

4386
03:02:41,150 --> 03:02:37,260
them to deviate from the beaten path so

4387
03:02:44,150 --> 03:02:41,160
if anyone can produce you know seven or

4388
03:02:46,910 --> 03:02:44,160
eight papers that are within the

4389
03:02:48,410 --> 03:02:46,920
mainstream every time they post one or

4390
03:02:49,610 --> 03:02:48,420
two papers that are out of the

4391
03:02:52,490 --> 03:02:49,620
mainstream

4392
03:02:55,010 --> 03:02:52,500
then I would allow those people to to to

4393
03:02:57,650 --> 03:02:55,020
make these postings I think that would

4394
03:03:00,530 --> 03:02:57,660
be a very simple approach to take

4395
03:03:04,130 --> 03:03:00,540
because it means that they are thinking

4396
03:03:06,469 --> 03:03:04,140
outside the bitten path and uh

4397
03:03:09,110 --> 03:03:06,479
creatively and these are people who are

4398
03:03:11,570 --> 03:03:09,120
contributing to the mainstream and I

4399
03:03:14,570 --> 03:03:11,580
don't think it will be regarded as

4400
03:03:17,510 --> 03:03:14,580
unscientific on their behalf uh because

4401
03:03:19,790 --> 03:03:17,520
they are doing most of the work in a

4402
03:03:22,370 --> 03:03:19,800
scientific fashion so so that's one

4403
03:03:25,610 --> 03:03:22,380
solution and of course another way is to

4404
03:03:29,690 --> 03:03:25,620
filter in their affiliation the their

4405
03:03:32,030 --> 03:03:29,700
current professional uh credentials so

4406
03:03:35,030 --> 03:03:32,040
if they went through all the degrees you

4407
03:03:38,570 --> 03:03:35,040
know of scientific practice if they have

4408
03:03:41,330 --> 03:03:38,580
a PhD they may be a professor in a in in

4409
03:03:44,230 --> 03:03:41,340
a university that should lend more

4410
03:03:47,750 --> 03:03:44,240
credibility to their discussion because

4411
03:03:51,889 --> 03:03:47,760
obviously by practicing science you know

4412
03:03:54,710 --> 03:03:51,899
the details you are more alert to all

4413
03:03:57,170 --> 03:03:54,720
the nuances and you are more worried

4414
03:04:00,050 --> 03:03:57,180
about your scientific stature and

4415
03:04:03,410 --> 03:04:00,060
reputation so it would be natural to

4416
03:04:06,170 --> 03:04:03,420
provide credit points to those who have

4417
03:04:08,809 --> 03:04:06,180
some professional expertise

4418
03:04:11,269 --> 03:04:08,819
Professor I just sent a chat what this

4419
03:04:13,070 --> 03:04:11,279
chat is are you able to see it uh

4420
03:04:14,630 --> 03:04:13,080
managing a project with more than 100

4421
03:04:16,610 --> 03:04:14,640
members

4422
03:04:18,830 --> 03:04:16,620
please go ahead read it it's just a

4423
03:04:20,389 --> 03:04:18,840
quote that I found inspiring from your

4424
03:04:23,090 --> 03:04:20,399
blog and I thought it would be great to

4425
03:04:26,150 --> 03:04:23,100
end with it says and I will leave a link

4426
03:04:28,010 --> 03:04:26,160
to your medium it says

4427
03:04:30,410 --> 03:04:28,020
managing a project with more than 100

4428
03:04:32,090 --> 03:04:30,420
members is not trivial I never served as

4429
03:04:33,590 --> 03:04:32,100
a marriage counselor but the best advice

4430
03:04:35,809 --> 03:04:33,600
I can imagine giving couples is simple

4431
03:04:37,250 --> 03:04:35,819
focus on what you agree on and avoid

4432
03:04:39,830 --> 03:04:37,260
getting distracted by peripheral

4433
03:04:41,450 --> 03:04:39,840
disputes for the Galileo project this

4434
03:04:43,550 --> 03:04:41,460
translates to the advice basketball

4435
03:04:45,710 --> 03:04:43,560
coaches often give their team members

4436
03:04:47,450 --> 03:04:45,720
which is keep your eye on the ball and

4437
03:04:48,889 --> 03:04:47,460
ignore the audience there are historic

4438
03:04:50,510 --> 03:04:48,899
precedents of communities that were

4439
03:04:53,030 --> 03:04:50,520
destroyed by not adhering to the simple

4440
03:04:54,650 --> 03:04:53,040
principle like the story of Babel for

4441
03:04:56,570 --> 03:04:54,660
which construction was supposedly never

4442
03:04:58,849 --> 03:04:56,580
completed because its City members lost

4443
03:05:01,130 --> 03:04:58,859
a Common Language the fundamental task

4444
03:05:04,250 --> 03:05:01,140
of good leadership is to maintain the

4445
03:05:06,710 --> 03:05:04,260
unifying thread within its community

4446
03:05:08,630 --> 03:05:06,720
yes

4447
03:05:13,309 --> 03:05:08,640
um I rest my case

4448
03:05:15,830 --> 03:05:13,319
um the point is that we need to focus on

4449
03:05:17,570 --> 03:05:15,840
the goal that all of us believe in in

4450
03:05:20,330 --> 03:05:17,580
the case of the Galileo project it's

4451
03:05:22,550 --> 03:05:20,340
collecting evidence and I brought Under

4452
03:05:25,130 --> 03:05:22,560
the Tent of the Galileo project both

4453
03:05:26,750 --> 03:05:25,140
Advocates and Skeptics

4454
03:05:29,929 --> 03:05:26,760
for a simple reason

4455
03:05:32,510 --> 03:05:29,939
that when the two camps agree on

4456
03:05:35,330 --> 03:05:32,520
something I know that the evidence is

4457
03:05:38,630 --> 03:05:35,340
strong enough so for example we have

4458
03:05:41,269 --> 03:05:38,640
Michael Shermer and he said that if we

4459
03:05:42,769 --> 03:05:41,279
find indisputable evidence he would be

4460
03:05:47,090 --> 03:05:42,779
glad to write

4461
03:05:50,570 --> 03:05:47,100
an essay in his magazine skeptic about

4462
03:05:52,370 --> 03:05:50,580
it and I said that's not enough I want

4463
03:05:56,269 --> 03:05:52,380
you to change the name of the magazine

4464
03:06:01,070 --> 03:05:58,250
what did he say

4465
03:06:03,110 --> 03:06:01,080
he laughed

4466
03:06:05,990 --> 03:06:03,120
okay we'll hold them to that

4467
03:06:08,090 --> 03:06:06,000
thank you Professor I appreciate you

4468
03:06:09,710 --> 03:06:08,100
spending so much time with me

4469
03:06:11,690 --> 03:06:09,720
thank you for having me it was a real

4470
03:06:13,910 --> 03:06:11,700
pleasure

4471
03:06:15,290 --> 03:06:13,920
okay well congratulations for sitting

4472
03:06:17,570 --> 03:06:15,300
through a three hour

4473
03:06:19,550 --> 03:06:17,580
video again it's astounding thank you

4474
03:06:21,170 --> 03:06:19,560
for sticking around for so long to find

4475
03:06:22,849 --> 03:06:21,180
out more about anything that's mentioned

4476
03:06:25,370 --> 03:06:22,859
in the podcast then do click on the

4477
03:06:27,710 --> 03:06:25,380
description there are fastidiously time

4478
03:06:29,870 --> 03:06:27,720
stamped themes and catalog references if

4479
03:06:33,950 --> 03:06:29,880
any are missing just comments in my wife

4480
03:06:35,690 --> 03:06:33,960
or I we read each comment so if you say

4481
03:06:37,130 --> 03:06:35,700
that hey at this time stamp you said so

4482
03:06:38,809 --> 03:06:37,140
and so would be included but it's not

4483
03:06:40,610 --> 03:06:38,819
I'll include it

4484
03:06:43,190 --> 03:06:40,620
forgive me as I've spent almost all

4485
03:06:45,290 --> 03:06:43,200
night editing and I just need to record

4486
03:06:47,510 --> 03:06:45,300
this last bit if you'd like to support

4487
03:06:49,090 --> 03:06:47,520
the theories of everything podcast then

4488
03:06:51,849 --> 03:06:49,100
visit

4489
03:06:53,510 --> 03:06:51,859
theoriesofeverything.org that is

4490
03:06:55,610 --> 03:06:53,520
theoriesofeverything.org and become a

4491
03:06:57,170 --> 03:06:55,620
member if you're currently on the

4492
03:06:59,690 --> 03:06:57,180
patreon and you feel like switching

4493
03:07:01,309 --> 03:06:59,700
there are several benefits so for

4494
03:07:04,849 --> 03:07:01,319
example one you'll get the entire

4495
03:07:07,010 --> 03:07:04,859
podcast early sometimes 12 hours to 48

4496
03:07:09,650 --> 03:07:07,020
hours early an audio version without

4497
03:07:12,110 --> 03:07:09,660
sponsors or ads you'll get a phone

4498
03:07:15,110 --> 03:07:12,120
number to text me if you like you can

4499
03:07:16,610 --> 03:07:15,120
ask a question for the Curt AMA so the

4500
03:07:18,950 --> 03:07:16,620
Kurt ask me any things and I'll be

4501
03:07:20,510 --> 03:07:18,960
likely releasing them there first there

4502
03:07:22,610 --> 03:07:20,520
will be discounts on Live Events

4503
03:07:24,769 --> 03:07:22,620
sometimes even free once we eventually

4504
03:07:26,690 --> 03:07:24,779
do start them there's exclusive merch to

4505
03:07:28,910 --> 03:07:26,700
be offered there to be purchased only by

4506
03:07:30,950 --> 03:07:28,920
members again in the future I have this

4507
03:07:33,170 --> 03:07:30,960
idea for a notebook where I'm putting

4508
03:07:34,790 --> 03:07:33,180
mathematical quotes and quotes from

4509
03:07:36,530 --> 03:07:34,800
physicists and mathematicians and other

4510
03:07:38,389 --> 03:07:36,540
spiritual leaders and Consciousness

4511
03:07:40,490 --> 03:07:38,399
experts and so on

4512
03:07:41,929 --> 03:07:40,500
that serve as inspiration for what

4513
03:07:43,730 --> 03:07:41,939
you're writing on that page whether it's

4514
03:07:45,950 --> 03:07:43,740
a Daily Journal or just note taking

4515
03:07:48,290 --> 03:07:45,960
there's also the eventual theories of

4516
03:07:49,610 --> 03:07:48,300
everything book okay it's not simply a

4517
03:07:51,410 --> 03:07:49,620
book I'm not interested in writing

4518
03:07:53,750 --> 03:07:51,420
novels and so on it's more an inventory

4519
03:07:55,490 --> 03:07:53,760
of the different toes explaining the

4520
03:07:57,410 --> 03:07:55,500
terminology behind each and relating

4521
03:07:59,150 --> 03:07:57,420
them to one another also when you become

4522
03:08:00,730 --> 03:07:59,160
a member or if you like you can place a

4523
03:08:02,809 --> 03:08:00,740
one-time donation at

4524
03:08:05,690 --> 03:08:02,819
theoriesofeverything.org more of the

4525
03:08:07,490 --> 03:08:05,700
money actually goes to Kurt Goes To Toe

4526
03:08:08,870 --> 03:08:07,500
like I mentioned in the beginning I

4527
03:08:11,030 --> 03:08:08,880
imagine that your supporting toe in

4528
03:08:13,610 --> 03:08:11,040
order to support toe not support toe

4529
03:08:15,050 --> 03:08:13,620
Plus patreon or to support toll plus

4530
03:08:17,750 --> 03:08:15,060
some other platform

4531
03:08:19,250 --> 03:08:17,760
even YouTube takes a huge cut these

4532
03:08:20,990 --> 03:08:19,260
podcasts take a great great deal of

4533
03:08:22,849 --> 03:08:21,000
preparation and I wouldn't be able to do

4534
03:08:25,130 --> 03:08:22,859
this without your support so thank you

4535
03:08:27,889 --> 03:08:25,140
so much there are many many many plans

4536
03:08:29,090 --> 03:08:27,899
for the future man okay well I can tell

4537
03:08:30,950 --> 03:08:29,100
you some I would like to hire a

4538
03:08:33,349 --> 03:08:30,960
full-time editor I'd like to hire a

4539
03:08:35,150 --> 03:08:33,359
full-time researcher to help me with

4540
03:08:36,950 --> 03:08:35,160
studying for the different toes as well

4541
03:08:38,990 --> 03:08:36,960
as to help with the eventual toe manual

4542
03:08:42,469 --> 03:08:39,000
there's also plans for different types

4543
03:08:44,870 --> 03:08:42,479
of content and different guests and well

4544
03:08:47,389 --> 03:08:44,880
that will be announced when it's ready

4545
03:08:48,830 --> 03:08:47,399
thank you thank you so much I may be

4546
03:08:51,590 --> 03:08:48,840
live streaming right now if you're

4547
03:08:53,809 --> 03:08:51,600
interested you can go to toe clipping so

4548
03:08:56,630 --> 03:08:53,819
type in toe clippings on YouTube I know

4549
03:08:58,010 --> 03:08:56,640
that's abhorrent to most and I think you

4550
03:08:59,809 --> 03:08:58,020
should avert your gaze to most of those

4551
03:09:01,790 --> 03:08:59,819
thumbnails because well you can imagine

4552
03:09:03,769 --> 03:09:01,800
the repugnancy that follows once you

4553
03:09:05,630 --> 03:09:03,779
search something like that however that

4554
03:09:07,309 --> 03:09:05,640
is the name of a fairly clever name for

4555
03:09:09,590 --> 03:09:07,319
the eclipse version of the theories of

4556
03:09:11,030 --> 03:09:09,600
everything podcast sometimes people

4557
03:09:12,410 --> 03:09:11,040
aren't like you they're not Troopers

4558
03:09:15,050 --> 03:09:12,420
they don't have it they don't have the

4559
03:09:17,450 --> 03:09:15,060
time to sit through three hours of a

4560
03:09:20,090 --> 03:09:17,460
video and then some they want to watch

4561
03:09:22,250 --> 03:09:20,100
five minute to ten minute at most maybe

4562
03:09:24,349 --> 03:09:22,260
20 minute chunks and those are where the

4563
03:09:26,210 --> 03:09:24,359
shareable clips go I also made live

4564
03:09:27,769 --> 03:09:26,220
stream there either right now or at some

4565
03:09:29,809 --> 03:09:27,779
point or take different guests or other

4566
03:09:31,130 --> 03:09:29,819
podcast hosts just if we want to talk

4567
03:09:32,990 --> 03:09:31,140
about some topic without much

4568
03:09:34,610 --> 03:09:33,000
preparation without feeling the pressure

4569
03:09:36,110 --> 03:09:34,620
of it being on the main toe Channel

4570
03:09:37,910 --> 03:09:36,120
because I don't want to dilute the

4571
03:09:39,530 --> 03:09:37,920
quality of the main toe channel so other

4572
03:09:41,389 --> 03:09:39,540
side content will go on the toe

4573
03:09:43,070 --> 03:09:41,399
clippings Channel a link to that is also

4574
03:09:44,809 --> 03:09:43,080
in the description you can visit there

4575
03:09:46,490 --> 03:09:44,819
like I mentioned I may be live streaming

4576
03:09:48,469 --> 03:09:46,500
there and we can discuss this episode

4577
03:09:50,330 --> 03:09:48,479
together if you like lastly I'm running

4578
03:09:53,510 --> 03:09:50,340
a physics contest

4579
03:09:57,170 --> 03:09:53,520
it's a Consciousness and physics contest

4580
03:09:58,849 --> 03:09:57,180
called Pace one so p-a-c-e so physics

4581
03:10:00,530 --> 03:09:58,859
and Consciousness Explorations number

4582
03:10:01,969 --> 03:10:00,540
one because it's the first time there's

4583
03:10:04,130 --> 03:10:01,979
a video about that in the description

4584
03:10:05,690 --> 03:10:04,140
Brilliance has come on board to sponsor

4585
03:10:07,610 --> 03:10:05,700
one thousand dollars to each of the five

4586
03:10:09,730 --> 03:10:07,620
winners so that is five thousand dollars

4587
03:10:11,929 --> 03:10:09,740
in total distributed among the top five

4588
03:10:14,030 --> 03:10:11,939
essentially you create your physics

4589
03:10:15,410 --> 03:10:14,040
explainer or Consciousness explainer it

4590
03:10:18,230 --> 03:10:15,420
doesn't need to be both if it

4591
03:10:19,670 --> 03:10:18,240
incorporates both that's well great but

4592
03:10:22,130 --> 03:10:19,680
it doesn't need to there's a distinct

4593
03:10:25,130 --> 03:10:22,140
lack of advanced physics and

4594
03:10:27,650 --> 03:10:25,140
Consciousness Concepts so if you have an

4595
03:10:32,150 --> 03:10:27,660
idea for how to explain let's say mirror

4596
03:10:35,030 --> 03:10:32,160
symmetry or some ctmu concept or yosha

4597
03:10:38,030 --> 03:10:35,040
box idea of computational Consciousness

4598
03:10:40,309 --> 03:10:38,040
slash simulation Consciousness then do

4599
03:10:42,530 --> 03:10:40,319
consider making a video and submitting

4600
03:10:44,570 --> 03:10:42,540
to that contest okay I think that's

4601
03:10:45,950 --> 03:10:44,580
everything thank you so much and again

4602
03:10:48,610 --> 03:10:45,960
thank you to the sponsors that's

4603
03:10:52,610 --> 03:10:48,620
butcherbox if you want some Quality Meat

4604
03:10:54,230 --> 03:10:52,620
butcherbox.com theories if you you would

4605
03:10:58,190 --> 03:10:54,240
like to learn some more about math and

4606
03:10:59,929 --> 03:10:58,200
physics that's brilliant.org toe thank

4607
03:11:03,230 --> 03:10:59,939
you

4608
03:11:04,790 --> 03:11:03,240
all right take care last comment thank

4609
03:11:06,650 --> 03:11:04,800
you to Boris Costello for creating the

4610
03:11:08,269 --> 03:11:06,660
photos on the website he's a talented

4611
03:11:10,150 --> 03:11:08,279
photographer and compositor here's his

4612
03:11:14,510 --> 03:11:10,160
Instagram instagram.com

4613
03:11:18,530 --> 03:11:17,030
the upcoming guests are John viveki and

4614
03:11:21,170 --> 03:11:18,540
Ian mcgilchrist coming together for

4615
03:11:24,170 --> 03:11:21,180
theologusion Stephen Greer is coming up

4616
03:11:26,269 --> 03:11:24,180
in October Nick Lane is coming up next

4617
03:11:28,969 --> 03:11:26,279
to talk about the origins of life being

4618
03:11:31,010 --> 03:11:28,979
predicated on metabolism rather than

4619
03:11:32,870 --> 03:11:31,020
genes being the precursor to metabolism

4620
03:11:34,610 --> 03:11:32,880
Tim Maudlin is coming on to talk about

4621
03:11:37,250 --> 03:11:34,620
the interpretations of quantum mechanics

4622
03:11:39,349 --> 03:11:37,260
and of course Salvatore Pious is coming

4623
03:11:41,330 --> 03:11:39,359
on with Stefan Alexander a string

4624
03:11:43,250 --> 03:11:41,340
theorist slash Loop quantum gravity

4625
03:11:45,650 --> 03:11:43,260
theorist to talk about quantum gravity